Pistols with a shot at replacing the M9

peyton · Aug 31, 2011

You can tell when the good idea fairy is running loose. I saw this today article today. The problem of 9mm not being a good stopping round (required to be Full metal jacket) is not new. I applaud the best pistol being supplied to our forces but let's cut those NATO strings and pick the best caliber to use as well.
Pistols with a shot at replacing the M9 - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

blujax01 · Aug 31, 2011

Time to start hoarding that cheap 9mm ammo. As Military and LEO's change to 40 cal, the price of the 9 will be going up.

brucev · Aug 31, 2011

Just off the top of my head, the answer is simple. If the focus is a manageable grip size, capacity, power, etc., they need to pick the .40 S&W and issue the Glock 22.

27145 · Aug 31, 2011

I think with our horrible economy, it is a no brainer. USA made weapons period. No US Military should be carrying foreign arms.

hatt · Aug 31, 2011

GLOCK 19 is the most sensible solution.

brucev · Aug 31, 2011

"USA made weapons period." I'd go one step further. U.S. made weapons chambered in the most effective caliber possible regardless of if it suits nato, now, etc. If someone doesn't have a large enough hand to handle the grip, let them adapt. But use a weapon in a caliber that will get the job done and not try to come up with some design that will satisfy a small group, etc.

jimmyj · Aug 31, 2011

I am BruceV- Glock Model 22 .40.
relace plastic magazine catch with a metal one and teach the "Universal Cover Mode" (finger outside trigger guard until firing).

DeadAye · Aug 31, 2011

It's about time!
Sorry, but ANY foreign design should be rejected out of hand. This country is going down a bit further every day due to buying instead of manufacturing.
Here's a chance to put some Americans to work - It's the right thing to do!

hatt · Aug 31, 2011

DeadAye said:
It's about time!
Sorry, but ANY foreign design should be rejected out of hand. This country is going down a bit further every day due to buying instead of manufacturing.
Here's a chance to put some Americans to work - It's the right thing to do!

I'd think the goal was to give the soldier the best pistol and give the taxpayers the best price. We can get over the American angle. Any design is going to be paid for with borrowed foreign money. I'd rather it be an inexpensive and well proven design.

mg357 · Aug 31, 2011

if i may add my 2 cents to the thread i suggest that they go with the s&w model m&p an American made pistol for America's fighting men and women

18DAI · Aug 31, 2011

Being the military just placed an order for 450,000 M9's this past January, this is a wishful thinking excercise.

As far as which pistols might have a chance as a military sidearm.... I'd pick FN45, HK45, HK USP. Striker fired guns were specifically prohibited in the last two requests for proposals. I don't see the military buying a striker fired pistol.

As far as the "buy american" stuff goes, maybe if American manufacturers would make a decent handgun, they could win a military contract.

Personally, I want a reliable, accurate, durable pistol in my holster when I go in harms way. I could care less who makes it. Regards 18DAI.

walnutred · Aug 31, 2011

Convert all the M92s into M96s.

Rule3 · Aug 31, 2011

FNP or FNX 40 or 45.

Snowbandit · Aug 31, 2011

There is already a subtle move within the law enforcement community towards a return to the 9MM as its effectiveness on human sized targets, with modern ammunition, now closely resembles the 40 and 45. I don't think you're going to see the 9 going any place anytime soon, particularly as long as the US is connected to NATO.

As to an appropriate choice for the 9MM launching platform we already have an excellent candidate in the Beretta M-9. It's going to be really tough for anyone to prove they're enough better to warrant the cost of a change in the present economy.

Glockaholics may as well get over themselves. Glocks have been problematic in law enforcement and would be a disaster with the current military personnel and training doctrines. No striker fired pistol would be accepted or even appropriate.

A viable option, ignoring the obvious cost considerations, would be the FNX-9. While it meets design criteria, and is made in the US by an already approved military contractor, it's not sufficiently better than the Beretta to even warrant consideration.

Better to just learn to love the Beretta for a long time.

pete950 · Aug 31, 2011

I know this is a S&W forum but

Glock works in all types of condidtions and just about every other country is using the Glock as well as most of our lawenforcment at home. So if our men and woman are in a different country parts,ammunition and mags sould be easly had. Just my opinion.

Pete

novalty · Aug 31, 2011

Weird the 2 things I took from the article are:

“It’s kind of hard to beat the Smith and Wesson M&P right now,” said one industry insider from a competing company, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “It is a polymer gun with high-capacity steel magazines. It has a positive safety and ambidextrous controls ... they simply came out of the gate with the right gun.”

But the venerable Glock does have its detractors, the industry insider said — primarily because the pistol lacks an external safety. In addition, there is no metal-on-metal contact in the magazine catch-recess area, causing magazines to wear out faster and sometimes drop out of the gun.

daveh75 · Aug 31, 2011

Just me....
-this is part of an article that was ran in Army times last week...left out were the quotes from soldiers; one stated he was so upset with the anemic 9mm because he had to engage a threat "three"...I said "three" times before he went down....yeah because everyone knows that the magical .40 or .45 will stop a man sized target with one shot no matter where you hit him....another sergeant (notice I said sergeant not NCO) complained about malfunctions due to maintenance issues...I will leave that as is because the difference between a sergeant and an NCO will high jack the thread.
-what was also left out of this was the fact that training has to be #1 conducted, and #2 needs to be "combat" "threat" whatever term you wish to use oriented....going out to the range once a quarter and firing 50 rounds doesn't qualify as training...
-as was pointed out by another poster, DoD already contracted with Beretta for more pistols, services, etc...IMHO what this boils down to is service members trying to find a niche for themselves as it appears that combat operations in theater are dwindling down...

Just a few other remarks...
-modularity in a weapons platform sounds cool for advertising, but is not efficient when you are talking about 120-130 soldiers who will need pistol X with X amount of modular parts...
-the article states the P229 is double action only...um yeah for the first shot...and many time I have "cocked" my issued P228 (M11) and personal P229 and fired the first shot single action....hmmmm???????
-the article states that "many soldiers reengage the decoking lever when raking the slide"....yeah, that is what training is for: you find a deficiency and train a workable solution...sorry there I go again....

Bottom line: this is only in the committee stage right now, and for those of you who have either worked in DoD or other large federal agencies you know that "committees" take quite a long time to produce anything definitive....just me, good luck, stay safe

DeadAye · Aug 31, 2011

Snowbandit said:
There is already a subtle move within the law enforcement community towards a return to the 9MM.....

Here most women cops carry 9s. The men (to a man) carry 40s.

When they left revolvers and 1911s they all carried 9s until we got a *gun guy* as sheriff.

I think your observation of the *subtle move within the law enforcement community* has more to do with uninformed bean counters trying to simplify paperwork (and therefore their job) than with gun and ballistic savvy folks.

truckemup97 · Aug 31, 2011

Why don't we stick with what we've already paid for and spend a little more time on marksmanship skills?

novalty · Aug 31, 2011

truckemup97 said:
Why don't we stick with what we've already paid for and spend a little more time on marksmanship skills?

Why do you need marksmanship skills, when newer guns will hold more rounds??

Pistols with a shot at replacing the M9

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