Kids Playing With Toy Guns?

papajohn428 said:

...Have you ever seen a bigger ****-eating grin?...

Click to expand...

No, but I also see his finger on the trigger while he's looking at the camera!

On the other note, toy guns are fine. Let them play!

kbm6893 said:

Just thought I'd resurrect my own thread. I was watching a 20/20 special last Friday night about kids and guns in the house. They had 4-6 year olds who watched the NRA safety video and were taught to leave guns alone and tell an adult, and then they put the kids in a play room where a gun was (unloaded, of course). Then they set up a camera. 80% of the boys and 40% of the girls picked up the gun, pointed it at each other, themselves, pulled the trigger, etc. The older kids (10 and above) were much more responsible. Once they become teens, all bets are off in many cases. Showing off to your friends and re-enacting Call of Duty can trump years of gun safety lessons.

Never got the whole "I can't lock my gun up. If there's a home invasion, I won't get to it" argument. The odds of that happening are very remote, and the odds are much higher that there is gonna be a tragedy. Some of these parents leave them on their nightstand loaded with kids in the house. One of the parents, a cop in a small town, left a loaded gun in his bedroom on top of a 5 foor dresser, in case somebody he arrested came for some payback. His 3 year old was told NEVER go into daddy's room and NEVER touch a gun. He shot himself in the head while playing with it.

Seems biology is against us. Try as we might, a 6 year old can NOT be counted on to remember what you have told him

Click to expand...

Yeah.

My brother, when he was 17, bought a pistol from somebody down on the corner. He called me into his bedroom, SHOWED me the gun (in a greasy rag in his desk drawer), told me not to mess with it, and then went off somewhere in his car.

I had that gun out of his desk before he was a block away. Only thing that prevented me from doing something REALLY DUMB, was I did not know how to unload it. I seriously wanted to play with it, but I could see the caseheads at the back of the cylinder and did not know how to open it to unload. So I wrapped it back in the rag and put it back in the drawer.

Jump forward 20 years. He takes his new stepdaughter (around 10 or so) into his bedroom, lifts up the mattress and says, "See that. That's my gun. Don't touch it".

Me, on t'other hand, told my kids, "You ever want to see a gun, you don't need to sneak it. Just ask. Me or Mama will get it for you." They bugged the hell out of me, for about a week. I'd walk in the door at night and it was, "Can I see the gun? Lemme see the gun."

For about a week. Then they didn't care. It was no big deal. It was like, "over there is a lamp, that's the TV, there's the dining-room table, there's Daddy's gun, there's the stove". There was no mystery.

Alpo said:

Yeah.

My brother, when he was 17, bought a pistol from somebody down on the corner. He called me into his bedroom, SHOWED me the gun (in a greasy rag in his desk drawer), told me not to mess with it, and then went off somewhere in his car.

I had that gun out of his desk before he was a block away. Only thing that prevented me from doing something REALLY DUMB, was I did not know how to unload it. I seriously wanted to play with it, but I could see the caseheads at the back of the cylinder and did not know how to open it to unload. So I wrapped it back in the rag and put it back in the drawer.

Jump forward 20 years. He takes his new stepdaughter (around 10 or so) into his bedroom, lifts up the mattress and says, "See that. That's my gun. Don't touch it".

Me, on t'other hand, told my kids, "You ever want to see a gun, you don't need to sneak it. Just ask. Me or Mama will get it for you." They bugged the hell out of me, for about a week. I'd walk in the door at night and it was, "Can I see the gun? Lemme see the gun."

For about a week. Then they didn't care. It was no big deal. It was like, "over there is a lamp, that's the TV, there's the dining-room table, there's Daddy's gun, there's the stove". There was no mystery.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah. My Uncle Mike was a NYC cop. When we used to go over to his house, we would wait until the adults went downstairs to play cards, then drag a chair into the kitchen, and use it to open the cabinet above the fridge where he kept his .38. We'd pass that gun back and forth. I was 7, my brother 11, and my cousins 6 and 4. We were all told not to touch it, too.

See what good it did.

Just so this is out in the open, if I ever get my hands on a real light saber I will probably put someone's eye out.

ive told this story before, i think it bears listening to.
i was taught from about age 5 how to shoot and handle guns safely, my dads rifles were kept in a glass fronted cabinet and his revolvers were kept in his bedside table.
dad taught me you NEVER put away a gun loaded, you NEVER dryfire a gun, you ALWAYS check the gun first ,before handling .
well i was about 15 years old, i knew better than to handle my dads 45 with out his permission.
but i did it anyway, i KNEW my father would NEVER put up his gun loaded. so i KNEW that i didnt NEED to check if it was loaded.
i belted on dads old holster and stuck the 45 in it and started doing quick draws in the mirror on the back of his bedroom door . i would perform the quick draw then lower the hammer gently because one should NEVER dry fire a gun. well it was about the 3rd or 4th quick draw that i noticed the hollowpoints staring back at me in the mirror, through the cylinder.
scared me, to think what could have happened.
this is coming from a kid that ate, drank and slept guns throughout his childhood. it was only luck that i didnt ventilate my dads home ...or something else..
this is why i feel guns should be locked up when not in use .even educated children/people can behave stupidly.

I had my share of various kinds on toy guns. Several of us neighborhood kids would get together every Sat and Sunday--play War. Nobody liked being the ""Germans and Japs"" nobody wanted to be the Indians either--always the cowboy or the Cavalry trooper and the same thing when we played Civil War--nobody wanted to be a yankee always wanting the grey-colored Kepis.

Anyway, we shot each other hundreds or thousands of times, and yet-fast forward to today, none of those in our group--ever became a murderer, robber--nada. Out of 8 of one is now a Doctor, another is a Scientist, another has his own talk radio show, three got into Law Enforcement, the rest in the military--last one retired from the USAF a few years ago.

I knew where all my dads loaded guns were, never snuck into the unlocked closet to look at them. Instead, we ""looked"" at them through a solid oak door. .

My solution to the kids/guns problem was to FORCE them to learn proper gunhandling from an early age, it got downright tedious for them. There were constant questions about how to safely load and unload them, handling techniques, and Lord help the poor kid that didn't exhibit constant muzzle awareness!

They were told that if they ever wanted to handle a gun, all they had to do was ask. The consequences of handling a firearm without permission were too horrible to contemplate.

Instead of being the Forbidden Fruit, guns became a droll part of Pop's constant tutoring (badgering), and the attraction wore off pretty quickly. Two of my four kids are avid shooters, show better gunhandling skills than 90% of the cops I worked with, and are passable shots. The other two consider guns a part of a culture they escaped, but they still know how to handle them responsibly if the need arises.

As for the finger on the AR-15 trigger above, the kid had just emptied the magazine, and had checked to make sure the action was locked open. I think he's actually a safer gun handler than I am, and I'm pretty anal about it.

kbm6893 said:

I don't have a "problem" with them. As a parent, the thought of my child picking up a gun he is not supposed to have access to and shooting himself or another sickens me. While I can (and do) take steps to make sure that doesn't happen in my house, there are many who do NOT. While some may claim the show is biased, it did not show me anything I haven't already seen. Fathers leaving guns on high shelves or under the mattress, etc. The truth of the matter is that there are MANY people too stupid to own a BB gun, and they leave guns around because "my 6 year old knows not to touch it", which might be the case when he is in your presence but time and time again that logic is proven false, and because of some highly improbable home invasion scenario they saw on SWAT TV. Lock your doors and windows and get an alarm or a dog and you'll have the 5 seconds you need to get the gun out of the quick access safe.

Before i had kids, my gun was in the safe when I was not at home (the one I wasn't carrying), and on my nighstand when i got home. Once they came along, into the safe they went. I figure my heavy door and alarm will buy me the time I need to get to my handgun.

Click to expand...

I certainly wouldn't argue against your points or your approach, which are obviously well thought out.

It is also possible simply to carry one of your guns on your body all the time, which is pretty much what you have to do in MA if you want to be sure of being within the law while having quick access to a gun. Of course, folks differ on whether a quick-access safe provides quick enough access. It's not easy to be sure your gun is safe from young ones, but it can be done.

Of all the games I played as a child I'd say about 90% involved some kind of gun. Cowboys and Indians, Cops and robbers, Army vs enemy Etc. If It hadn't been for toy guns I'm not sure what I'd have done.

Today I like the real thing. I don't see as how I was harmed or turned into a violent gun crazed killer because of my childhood antics.

Whether or not a child plays with toy guns when they are little I believe that when the parent deems the child is old enough he should be exposed to real guns. We all know the inquisitive nature of kids and the quickest way to get a kid to snoop on something is to tell him to absolutely leave it alone. It's none of your business and I'll beat you till your mama won't recognize you if I ever find out you have messed with my guns.

If you take the mystery out of it and let them see and hold it and explain about it and about safety and when they are ready let them pop a few rounds whether or not they find all that a pleasant experience they will be much less tempted to snoop on your guns.

Kids can be very clever and if they want to find something bad enough eventually they will.

I did this with both my kids and it turned out that none of them cared a flip for guns after that. No mystery = no curiosity.

My kids have nerf guns...but I have silhouette on the wall in their room..if they shoot each other, or point them at each other, they know I will take them away. I have told them early on that you don't point guns at people you love...and it teaches them the basics of gun safety.

I grew up with toy guns and so have my boys. Real guns are kept under lock and key at my house, more for the sake of their friends than my boys.

My boys have been educated about the difference between toy guns and real guns from a very early age - around 4 or 5 years old. Prior to that the rule was that they not point guns, even their toy guns, at anything that was alive. Once they were around 5 I took them shooting and let them shoot a real gun.

As a result they wouldn't think of touching my guns when I am not around. However, I do not know for certain that this is the case with all their friends so I keep them locked up.

Too many kids these days don't receive any education about guns beyond "DON'T TOUCH". Naturally, the only thing that making them into "forbidden fruit" does is pique their interest and ensure that they WILL go messing with them if given the chance.

On the other hand if you teach them proper handling and safety, and show them why guns are dangerous (taking small game is an effective teaching demonstration) they learn to respect the power of a gun.

This teaches them that they should handle real guns with proper supervision. The best way to teach kids not to play with the real thing is to demystify them first, IMO. Kids who shoot each other by accident do so out of ignorance.

BC38 said:

The best way to teach kids not to play with the real thing is to demystify them first, IMO. Kids who shoot each other by accident do so out of ignorance.

Click to expand...

I've tried to drive that home to all of my kid's friends parents but it falls on deaf ears. "Oh no, they will never touch a real gun." Really? I ask them what if they go over some other kids house and you don't know if there are guns there? Wouldn't it be better to teach them what to do if they come across one?

Guns are no big deal to my kids now because their curiosity has been satisfied. They know they can visit the safe anytime they want and I will safely show them anything they want to see...last visit was 3 months ago...and it only lasted a minute.

Toy guns never hurt me...

I'm about as non-violent as a person can get. To me it's knowing the difference between play and real life. What was a clear boundary to us is now extremely blurred.

My daughter has two kids, a boy ten and a girl of five. My son has three boys, fifteen, soon to be thirteen, and nine.

My daughter won't allow a toy gun, much less a real one, in her home.

My son has taught his sons to handle guns responsibly and safely, shoot everything from a Gamo air rifle to various handguns to a three-inch 12 gauge, and clean them immaculately.

I love all my grandkids.

Guess which ones I worry less about.

finesse_r said:

Even as a small child, I well knew the difference between my cap pistols and water pistols and my father's real guns. I think some solid education would go a long way even with small children. I also knew I could only play with my toys, and not with real guns.

Click to expand...

Yep...
The human brain hasn't changed much .... just what's fed to it

Just start while they're young!!! You can set your own rules, and your own exposure rules, but do it now. I don't like to tell people how to raise their kids so I won't go on any longer about that. Just start young and reinforce.

Dad had a .357 magnum in his nightstand drawer, and later his office drawer, along with a .30-30 and .22 in the basement. He kept an air rifle by the back door for me to take into the backyard as long as I asked permission first. It was no mystery where everything was, and he knew I just loved seeing them and had a huge interest and fascination with firearms and the military in general.

I remember the first thing he did when he got them was to sit me down and show them to me, and told me that these weren't toys. Even the air rifle wasn't a toy, and that when I had it in the backyard I wasn't "playing" with it. He made sure that I had some understanding that things aren't like in the movies, and that I, or someone else, could really get hurt. He made sure I had it clear in my head that they weren't toys, and never to treat them as such.

Now it wasn't all fire and brimstone and "guns are evil, don't touch them". He also made sure to teach me over time that guns are tools that can be dangerous if used wrong. He taught me to respect a firearm and how to be safe with them. When he thought that I had enough respect for them, he brought out the air rifle and taught me how to shoot it. Eventually he would leave it in the corner of the kitchen and all I'd have to do was ask if I could shoot it.

The first hard dose of reality put some fear of God in me, and then he tempered it with understanding that reality and respecting the firearms, as well as respecting that those things aren't mine (yet). Once I showed that respect and an understanding of the consequences, he just reinforced it.

That first reality check also made it readily clear that there's a difference between the toy guns I played with and real ones. I never had an issue distinguishing the difference, and didn't want to test it either. I knew that if I wanted to see them he'd show me, and if I wanted to shoot I just had to ask (and earn the range time with good grades and doing my chores). I was always curious about other guns when I saw them, but knew better than to just handle them until an adult gave me permission and said they were safe. I had a few sharp reminders when I did something unsafe like getting complacent of trigger discipline or where the muzzle was pointing (thankfully not at the same time), and boy did those sharp reminders teach me quick. Worked like a charm for him, and it's working pretty well with a couple other friends who have kids themselves.

80% of the boys touched the guns after being instructed not to. So 20% did not. It might be that members of a gun forum, who by definition are "enthusiasts" would fall into that 20%.

But the vast majority of gun owners are not "gun people". They buy a gun for protection and shoot a few boxes a year. And even the "gun people" kids screw up. If you can, watch the video. Family of hunters, with kids "educated" from birth about guns. Guns being "demystified" yet still found and used to injure or kill.

We are our own worst enemy. We get so confident that we think we it can't happen to us. It can. I know it will NEVER happen in my house, but what of the others? We have the brother of one poster who showed his young brother a gun when he was 17 and then left the house. 20 years later, he shows his young daughter his gun UNDER A MATTRESS! Think she won't show one of her friends? My uncle, a cop, didn't lock up his gun, either and 4 kids, three under then age of 10, passed it around like a toy.

And the anti-gun people should wake up, too. They should be teaching their kids about guns, too.

What pisses me off the most is that when one of these incidents DO happen, the owner of the gun who did not secure it is RARELY punished. Judges and courts look at that shattered person and figure he has been punished enough and he gets probation. maybe HE has been punished enough, but maybe of people started serving lengthy prison sentences for not locking them up, others would change.

I am 63 and the oldest of seven kids in my family. We had plenty of toy guns and BB guns when I was growing up. Started hunting with dads 22 pump when I was about 10 or 11. Got a22 pump for Christmas when I was 13, and my brothers did as well. There were firearms all around our house.
We were taught gun safety and never had any issues.
I was a little nervous about my son getting his first 22. I bought it for Christmas when he was 14. He is 35 now and gas a small collection and is building another AR. He is hooked on guns and hunting in a very positive way.
He just had his first child. It will be interesting how that unfolds in a few years.
Guns can easily be a lifelong hobby for us if safety principles and proper upbringing are in place.

Raised three kids and had a bunch of guns around. No issues, as they say these days. It is all in the training-- I am reminded of a new DIL of 18 years back who started that 'no guns' C*** when #2 grandson was born-- I respected her wishes for about 4 years. When all three of the Grandsons got together for the first time, they made guns out of Lego's. THAT, was the end of that. These days, her 9 year old daughter helps me around the reloading bench, she is great at punching out old primers. Knows all about brass preparation as well.