Is Jerry Kuhnhausen really right?

JamesArthur60

JamesArthur60

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I was reading (and looking at the awesome photo's and drawings) in the new expanded 5th edition of Jerry Kuhnhausen's S&W Revolvers Shop Manual and was amazed with the volume of information. All very interesting material for S&W fans, but when I read his FINAL EDITORIAL COMMENTS (page 205) I was confused. I know his manuals have been used for shop training and the statistics are public information for anyone to research and view. But, his personal professional views on the current S&W revolvers seemed negative. No doubt his research and gun smithing skills are important for his professional opinion. His apparent bitterness towards S&W selling out for political correctness (MIM parts in 1997 and the PC trigger locks in 2000) along with being privately sold numerous times are apparent. He talks about a possible dim future for S&W revolvers referencing poor drop-in parts, poor tolerances, overall poorly manufactured revolver, plus backorder issues, etc. But, this sentence from him makes me wonder, do I really want a S&W revolver?

…"Considering this silliness, isn't it about time to drop the S&W brand loyalty nonsense and switch to better firearms made by a real U.S. gun company - Ruger for example?"

What does he really mean?
 
Uh-oh... I'm not sure, but I think you just committed an S&W Forum felony, by mentioning locks and somebodies disdain for them in a post.

I cannot state what my opinion on integral locks is, as I don't want to get in trouble either, but it may suffice to say that I don't happen to own any S&Ws with them...
 
Jerry Kuhnhausen has his opinion, and he's entitled to it. Since I'm not a gunsmith, and have almost no interest in doing repair work on my own guns, I freely admit I'd never heard of him or his book until I saw this thread. So I really don't much care what he thinks, or what he might mean by his comment.

He seems to have a bee in his bonnet about later model S&W revolvers. This isn't the first time we've seen mini-rants like this on this forum.
sleep.gif
No doubt it won't be the last.
 
It's not MIM and locks......

...but the implication that Rugers are 'better' than Smiths. One could just as easily say that Ruger uses investment casting on their pars, so they can't be taken seriously as a firearm company.

I think the popularity of the entire M&P line speaks for itself. I don't hear about as many people trading them in as much as buying another size or caliber in the same line.

In other words, they guy knows a lot about guns, but his opinion about singling out S&W for trying to keep costs down is flat WRONG.
 
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Having read the book, the gunsmithing info is more than worth the price. If his opinion is to switch to Rugers, you could do worse, but that sounds like brand loyalty nonsense to me. To each their own...
 
The S&W products I've seen/been issued and used with MIM parts seem durable, and those parts seem very well made. I expect there are outfits who's MIM parts may be less than stellar, but that doesn't seem to apply at the moment.

The Ruger investment casting has already been mentioned. I can still recall the first time I took a Redhawk apart and looked at the "finish" on the inside of the frame. Cobblestone street came to mind.

I can also recall the sintered metal parts used by Colt and Dan Wesson. Those were indeed trash, but that process wasn't MIM and the companies in question paid the price for the miserable quality.

He's entitled to his opinion, however, keep in mind the old saying about opinions. If you want top of the line quality, expect top of the line pricing and probable bankruptcy. The end product is a tool, not a work of art.
 
I guess asking him about polymer framed guns would result in something like an asteroid strike.;)

Manufacturing firearms in large numbers is a BUSINESS, and sometimes business has to change to survive. I think S&W and Ruger have done so pretty well, even if the perceived quality of some products leaves a bit to be desired in some eyes.
 
All U.S. firearm manufacturers have gone through some of the same issues, companys' being sold to bean counters, expense and availability of current skilled labor, cost cutting measures for parts. Just part of the times. For me the solution is easy-- many great guns still available almost as new, made many years ago, in fact the older the better. Revolvers made before and just after WW2 are the best as far as quality and alloy technology was advanced enough by that time. The 80's is the newest I will buy. No current made guns will see a dime from my pocket. Just my humble opinion on the subject as I tend to agree with Jerry.
 
All answers as I thought, it is his opinion. My take on his comments are is concerns regarding poor parts and workmanship compared to the older models of the pre 90's era. I like S&W guns, I have owned several revolvers (mostly older ones) and never had one that I simply had to dump due to mechanical issues. I noticed he also authors a shop manual for Colt and Ruger Double Action Revolvers. It would interesting to compare those editorial comments.
 
a different opinion

On March 30, 1989, Bill Ruger sent a letter to every member of the US Congress stating:
"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms (which would be a licensing effort of staggering proportions) but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."
William B. Ruger
 
Jerry Kuhnhausen is a superb gunsmith/machnist.

One must respect all the work he has done on Smith
revolvers and other firearms.

But by the very size of his book/books just on Smith
revolvers indicates just how much work can be done
and in fact may be needed to make them such superb firearms.
They are from an era that reflects the zenith of late
19th and early 20th centuries firearms production.

Truly drop-in parts or ones nearly so made by the modern methods
are, I think, anathema to an old time gunsmith/machinist whether
they are used in Smith or Ruger revolvers.
 
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His statement reflects what I have observed about what is still called Smith and Wesson. I have quite a few S&W hand guns, mostly revolvers, and some of them are 70 years old, more or less, and some are much newer than that, so when I pick up my 1946 5 inch M&P, I enter a different experience, but the same thing happens with guns made much later than that as well. I think, and I have said this before on here, that what we get in new production S&W's are guns made by an entirely different company that is trading off of a name and reputation that someone else built.
 
Jerry Kuhnhausen was a master gunsmith, writer and teacher of gunsmithing. However, he was also noted for keeping his private life very private. So there's not a whole lot known about the man himself. There are references that say that the factories would send their gunsmiths to Kuhnhausen to learn how to repair the older guns correctly. He was also noted as being the man who could save an older Colt revolver when no one else could.
He never really became famous because he didn't build fancy, custom guns. He simply fixed older guns and did it better than anybody else. The man just plain knew his stuff.
Kuhnhausen wrote about a dozen Shop manuals on S&W, Colt and Ruger revolvers, 1911s, Mausers, Remington shotguns and a few others. His books are considered by many to be the definitive works on these guns.
I've seen info on his passing in 2012. However that may be incorrect. As the 5th Edition was published in 2014. I guess he was just old school and didn't like the changes. :rolleyes:

Frankly, I agree with the man. Well except maybe for the Ruger remark. :rolleyes:
I own a bunch of S&W revolvers and none have the lock. Only one has MIM parts (a 642-1 which I sometimes carry) and it does not have a lock. Ok, I guess that makes me old school too. ;)
 
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All the eloquent reminiscing about how things were made better in the good old days gives me great pause. I made a living for a while as a production machinist and later did prototype work. The products of CNC machines are generally held to much more consistent dimensions than you'll see from general production runs with human operators. I believe well made MIM parts are also more consistent.

As to the 'works of art'. Leaving engraved special projects aside, I recall a customer bringing grandads S&W in, still with the original tan/blue box in excellent condition. The blue was so deep you could drown in it and the finish was outstanding, the color case hardening beautiful. I went on for some time about how they don't make 'em like this anymore and then apologized and asked why he'd brought it in.

"Spits lead".

Seemed very tight, opened the cylinder and started laughing. There was no forcing cone. I apologized, explained the issue and fixed the problem after checking yoke alignment, timing and carryup, which were all good/excellent. End of problem. You'd have thought the inspectors might have noticed that.

And yeah, I despise the lock too.
 
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Grayfox said:
However, he was also noted for keeping his private life very private. So there's not a whole lot known about the man himself.
Click to expand...
That makes me respect him all the more. But I don't know what that has to do with judging his opinion. Does who I slept with in the 1970s affect how valid my opinion is in the 2020s?
 
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