Bullet proof vests

jrm53 · Mar 6, 2009

Several years ago I was on the Quorum Court in Ar. and I learned something most people would never know unless they were in Law Enforcement. The Sheriff came before a committee I served on and said we need new body armour, why I asked have they been shot to many times? No they have a expiration date. You mean they have a use by date? Yes the company wont stand behind them if they are out of date so we had to buy new ones. I made them give me an old one and sure enough it had a date not to use after.

jrm53 · Mar 6, 2009

Several years ago I was on the Quorum Court in Ar. and I learned something most people would never know unless they were in Law Enforcement. The Sheriff came before a committee I served on and said we need new body armour, why I asked have they been shot to many times? No they have a expiration date. You mean they have a use by date? Yes the company wont stand behind them if they are out of date so we had to buy new ones. I made them give me an old one and sure enough it had a date not to use after.

smith revolver cop · Mar 6, 2009

Years ago, IACP and NIJ came up with a "rational replacement policy," recommending replacement every five years. Moisture, UV exposure, and other factors eventually degrade the vest fibers and reduce ballistic protection. The Bureau of Justice Assistance adopted the five-year replacement schedule for their vest grant program, also. Original Kevlar, Kevlar 129, and Twaron probably are fine well beyond 5 years, but the Zylon debacle a few years ago showed that Zylon degrades much more rapidly than ever expected (or at least than ever publicly admitted!). The most famous case involved the failure of two "Second Chance" vests, but it really had little to do with Second Chance. They just had a huge share of the market, and so it was their vests that showed up first when the problem was discovered. (I currently wear a Second Chance Level II vest in 100% Kevlar 129, and have all the confidence in the world in it. For those of you as old as me, my very first vest was a Second Chance "Model Y," which even predates the NIJ standards!) There is a new fabris that also had a shorter effective life than expected... Dyneema, or something like that? NIJ has very recently published their new body armor standards, and will begin certifying vests (again) in the near future. (They have been operating with interim standards for 5-6 years.)

GatorFarmer · Mar 6, 2009

Eh. Waffling motion with hand. Yes and no. The maker's warranty usually expires at the five year point. It is also possible for vests to degrade. Zylon was a notorious issue and apparently there have been problems with Dynema (I can't remember if it is one "e" or two) wearing from friction and getting banged around.

However, old vests have held up surprisingly well. At least the ones made out of straight Kevlar. The folks at www.bulletproofme.com will sell you an old panel (cheap) to shoot if you want to prove this to yourself.

That said, I generally do buy a new vest every five years or so, but they start to stink something awful from being worn daily (even with the carrier laundered, do not wash your inserts). Still, armor doesn't magically expire after five years.

There's also important differences between military grade armor and LE armor, but that's beyond the general topic. Basically what you need to know is if all you can afford or get is a six year old vest, but it is good quality and in good condition, it will probably work as advertised.

dovekiller · Mar 6, 2009

"The bullet penetrated his bullet-proof vest."
......quote from some television news bimbo.

Faulkner · Mar 7, 2009

I didn't realize people still call ballistic vests "bullet proof".

The only bullet proof one I've seen is the one Walker, Texas Ranger, wears. I saw him take a .308 round in his vest and pretty much shrug it off. I need to go where he shops.

Smitty500Mag · Mar 7, 2009

Clint Eastwood with the boiler plate on a rope around his neck under a Pancho, now that's a real mans bullet proof vest! And sweat don't make it degrade!

Smitty

Faulkner · Mar 7, 2009

Originally posted by Smitty500Mag:
Clint Eastwood with the boiler plate on a rope around his neck under a Pancho, now that's a real mans bullet proof vest! And sweat don't make it degrade!

Smitty

It may not degrade, but it'd sure rust. I'm thinking that rust would get a bit abrasive after a while.

silvercorvette · Mar 7, 2009

Originally posted by Smitty500Mag:
Clint Eastwood with the boiler plate on a rope around his neck under a Pancho, now that's a real mans bullet proof vest! And sweat don't make it degrade!

Smitty

the movie "Ned Kelly (1970)" did the same type thing with steel plate

feldspar13 · Mar 7, 2009

I still have my Second Chance Model Y

ragman · Mar 7, 2009

I have sold body armor for over 20 years. Smith revolver cop and gator farmer know of what they speak. I have examined and fitted a lot of armor and never found but 2 that I would have not worn and both of them were over 12 years old. As a side note I have a vest panel that Richard Davis (former owner of Second Chance)shot himself with. He used 44mag,357mag,40cal and 9mm. 5 shots all in a 3.5 inch space. The vest was well damaged but did not fail. Richard signed it and gave it to me.

Wheelgunner840 · Mar 7, 2009

Can one of you give me some information on a vest that has the tag:

Safariland Ballistics, Inc.

Morgan-Magnum Textured Armor

Large

Monrovia, California USA

The only other text is on a small blue tab inside the plastic sealing material over the actual soft armor that reads "If indicator turns pink ---Vest has exceeded moisture limit. Return to manufacturer for resealing."

This is an old vest. At least 15-20 years. The blue tab is still blue. Do you know if this vest has degenerated, or will it still be useful?

Thanks,
WG840

MKT · Mar 7, 2009

I can't tell you if your 20 year old vest is still good or not, I wouldn't care to try it out either.

My first vest I wore for about 10-11 years or so. The panel inserts had finally worn thin at the edges. I had used probably 4 vest covers in that time. My favorite and most comfortable was my Zylon, but they were all taken out of service sue to the degradation from sweat and UV. I'm on my fourth vest at 24 years.

ragman · Mar 7, 2009

Wheelgunner840: Based on your info I thnk your vest is 20+ but somewere on the vest panel there should be a mfg date. The problum with a mid 80,s Safariland vest was that Safariland was subcontracting the mfg of the panels and a large number of them did not have the correct number of kevlar layers in them. There was a large recall of there vest in about 1987. If I remember right it was 3 to 4 thousand vest that were sold to canada an some on the west coast. I would not use it except as a door stop.

Lenshappy · Mar 7, 2009

Gator - can you give us some more details, please?

GatorFarmer · Mar 7, 2009

Originally posted by Wheelgunner840:
Can one of you give me some information on a vest that has the tag:

Safariland Ballistics, Inc.

Morgan-Magnum Textured Armor

Large

Monrovia, California USA

The only other text is on a small blue tab inside the plastic sealing material over the actual soft armor that reads "If indicator turns pink ---Vest has exceeded moisture limit. Return to manufacturer for resealing."

This is an old vest. At least 15-20 years. The blue tab is still blue. Do you know if this vest has degenerated, or will it still be useful?

Thanks,
WG840

You'd ideally want a new vest, if for no other reason, than that IIIA vests have become sort of the "go to" threat level in recent years for a variety of reasons.

Anyway, if you can't afford a new vest, you can either take the panels out of your old vest and add them to a German flecktarn surplus flak vest (which were selling for 40-50 bucks not long ago) or else up armor it with similarly aged panels sold for 25 dollars each by Bulletproofme.com for people to test shoot. The end result would be better than nothing though not my first choice.

You could also buy stand alone level III rifle plates and just use your old vest as spalling protection.

www.galls.com is having a sale right now on some models or you can have one shipped in from Israel if you're bargain hunting.

GatorFarmer · Mar 7, 2009

Originally posted by photohause:
Gator - can you give us some more details, please?

What would you like to know more about?

Wheelgunner840 · Mar 7, 2009

Originally posted by ragman:
Wheelgunner840: Based on your info I thnk your vest is 20+ but somewere on the vest panel there should be a mfg date. The problum with a mid 80,s Safariland vest was that Safariland was subcontracting the mfg of the panels and a large number of them did not have the correct number of kevlar layers in them. There was a large recall of there vest in about 1987. If I remember right it was 3 to 4 thousand vest that were sold to canada an some on the west coast. I would not use it except as a door stop.

Thanks for the info. This vest was used for a very short time by my brother who was a police recruit many years ago. He never followed through with it. I worked for the city Fire dept. We had vests issued for use when we were going into certain calls with the police. The vests they gave us were all tiny, and I am not. My brother gave me his vest to wear at work because it fit me. It has been hanging in a closet since I retired from the FD.

So, the problem with this vest would be that it may not have the correct number of kevlar layers, not that it may have lost it's structural integrity over time? This was apparently shipped to the east coast, as my brother bought it here.

Thanks again for the info.

WG840

TNDixieGirl · Mar 7, 2009

What would you like to know more about?

Not sure what he wants, but would it be out of line if I asked what you do for a living that requires a vest to be worn daily? LEO? Military? If you've told before, I totally missed it.

GatorFarmer · Mar 7, 2009

Originally posted by TNDixieGirl:

What would you like to know more about?

Click to expand...

Not sure what he wants, but would it be out of line if I asked what you do for a living that requires a vest to be worn daily? LEO? Military? If you've told before, I totally missed it.

I'm a suburban VA homemaker.

I started wearing a vest when I was a slumlord - er... property management professional.

Bullet proof vests

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