Mrs. Chief and I spent 5 hours at the Dealership today picking out, driving and buying a car. After watching all the youtube car buying video's before going, there is still no real way to keep from getting hosed! I negotiated my best deal to the point where they would have let me walk out - without anymore counter offers - so I knew I had gotten pretty much the best deal I could. They now have more fees, add ons and BS than ever before - what torture! Even though we think we go into the dealership prepared, they are always two steps ahead. Although I got many of the extra charges taken off, they did add window tinting and a few other items that were permanently part of the car as it sat and they weren't taking those off, although I did get most of the up-charges reduced.

The one thing I don't have patience for is going back and forth from dealer to dealer and they just wore me out. The dealers in our area are all cut from the same cloth and I just made the best deal I could even though we wound up buying more car than we originally wanted. Since we intend on keeping this vehicle for about 9 years or so, the extra options although not necessary are useful as safety tools. Things like 360º cameras, turning cameras, adaptive cruise control, blind spot warnings, automatic liftgate, giant sunroof, premium sound system, hill hold, automatic emergency braking, blah blah blah which are certainly not necessary - but nice to have when keeping a car for the long haul.

The bottom line is we did get up-charged, forced to take items we did not really want, (they bundle things of course so we are forced to do that) but they had most models with added stuff for more profit. I feel like we went through the meat grinder today however I am picking up the car tomorrow morning and I hope it lasts a while! Maybe I am crazy, but I'd almost rather spend a little more than spend a week or so haggling with these guys. Had I spent another day or two shopping and haggling I could have probably saved another few hundred bucks - but they just wore me out!!! My sanity is worth more than a few hundred bucks. So the "Stealers" are still up to their games and tricks and all we can do is the best we can do! I am mentally and physically exhausted tonight and feel like I just ran a marathon - lol.

My sincere sympathy for anyone who has to do though this ordeal!! We were very very spoiled over the last 30 years because we had a very close friend that owned a Cadillac, Buick, GMC Dealership and he always treated us right and gave us an excellent deal. Now that we have moved far away, we are just part of Joe Public again and must endure their torture! Today's events reminded us BIG TIME why car dealers and car salesmen have the reputations they do!

...aaannndd, we still don't know what you got? The big glass sunroofs frost my chops, I like steel over my head.

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Release the Kraken

We got the top of the line Kia Sportage SX Prestige all loaded up. My wife hated the grills on the Lexus SUV and Toyota Rav 4 although they were great vehicles mechanically. We did not want a Honda or Nissan because they had the CVT transmission - (don't like them at all). Buick was out of the model SUV we were interested in ( we would have to have waited 'till August for the new models) and Ford had nothing we liked. The Chevy and GMC were not rated that well, and the Mercedes and BMW models are a maintenance headache and expense when keeping the car for 10 years. The Genesis was rated very high but they were priced super high to match! The Mazda CX5 was OK, well made and reliable but just didn't rock our boat. The Hyundai Tucson was pretty much the same car as the Kia Sportage, but we liked the lines of the SX Prestige Sportage a little more - basically the same vehicle and priced similarly.

This SUV is for my wife and I felt it was just the perfect size for her (her first SUV). I drive a GMC Yukon and that size vehicle is just too much for her. I also did not want to go any smaller as safety, room, comfort and crash worthiness were all important. This is our first Kia and it got rave reviews - hope that means it will last a long time! With a 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty and 5 year/60,000 mile bumper to bumper on the rest, I believe we made the right choice.

We have zero interest in EV's or Hybrids so they were out from the get-go. This car is rated for 32 Hwy and 26 around town, runs on regular gasoline and is a comfortable ride. The only downside was the BS we had to wade through for hours at the dealership - came close to walking out!! That said, I truly don't believe other dealerships would have been any better! They all go to the same school!

This can apply to any purchase we make but for the sake of this thread I'll stick the topic. There's a big difference between needing a new car and just wanting one.

If you NEED a replacement vehicle you're kind of at the mercy of what you can afford and what's out there. If you NEED a replacement vehicle you can bet the salesperson knows it and will go for the jugular.

If you are just caught up in WANTING a new vehicle you still have some leverage in whether or not you get a decent deal. You can walk out anytime you want. The dealership might not care but don't give them the satisfaction. You have to be flexible and determined to get what you are willing to accept. Somewhere out there is a better deal on a new vehicle. You just have to find that dealership that is eager to unload his inventory.

Every year technology improves and vehicles have a lot more than most of us needs or wants. My last vehicle was a '89 Jeep Wrangler. I kept it for 17yrs. The AM/FM radio sold me on buying it. My current vehicle is a '06 F-150 XLT. I had reached an age where comfort had more meaning. Even though it is loaded with amenities it doesn't compare to what's out there today.

I've been looking at new vehicles for some time. I don't need one but I might want to upgrade before gas vehicles are no longer available. I'll look for what I want and what I feel is a reasonable price for me.

A lot of us know that for years car manufacturers added a lot of extras without charging an outrageous extra amount of money. We came to expect it on even the base models. Life was good.

Maybe it's time to pay the Piper.

Adding on to above...

I've found that if you show interest in a vehicle, then leave without buying, they tend to call you within a week or so to "check in" with you.
Unfortunately, the internet has done some damage to the art of wheeling and dealing.
The dealerships all know what's out there, so the only bluffing you can do is not to buy.

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Because of the metric system?

Should have walked out.
Last 2 vehicles I bought they started that add on **** I said no or I will leave. They took them off and when the finance theft officer started to bring that up I just cut him off with NO.
Total time at the dealer for both purchases less than 2 hours. When they start that delaying talk to the manager stuff just get up and head to the door.

IMO buying a new car ranks up there with getting a root canal.
It’s a royal pain. No matter how good of a deal I got, I feel I got hosed.
There was a dealership that had fixed pricing listed on the car. No dickering.
I don’t know if they still have that.

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Who are those guys?

Based on my 2004 Sportage, you'll (or should I say "She'll") like the car. When we had a snowstorm and everything was slicker than snot on a doorknob, that Sportage went through just fine!

Ivan

Locally we have several "fix-up / clean-up / detail" shops in an area know as Bondo Alley.
Some are honest and reputable - Some are NOT.

Their business plans are mostly:
1) Buy a car needing detailing or work at "dealers only" auto auction.
2) Do some detaining / clean up at Bondo Alley shop.
3) Resell at another "dealers only" auto auction.
4) Some also resell RETAIL locally for cash with no trade..

In years past I bought three from HONEST detail and resell shops.

1) Dealer had a Dodge Dakota that he had not started detailing yet.
I like it and was interested. He explains exactly what detaching he was planning to do.
Told him to let me know when done because I was interested. Got a GOOD deal!

2) Reseller had a Chrysler auto that had need clean up - no serious detailing. Another GOOD deal.

3) EXTREMELY FAST deal. I NEEDED a car. Walked into an HONEST "detail and resell" shop.
"We do not sell retail, Wholesale Only."
I don't have a trade and have cash!
"That's different what are you looking for."
Within two hours I had CarFax report and my usual repair shop was scheduled for any needed detailing that seller would pay for.

With Franchised Name Brand Dealers Have suffered through extended negotiation (aka ATTEMPTED EXTORTION)
and walked out after receiving multiple successively lower "BEST OFFERS" .

Once I wanted the car. Walked in. Laid my check book on counter.
"What is you best CASH PRICE for that car?"
Did not like his number and picked up my check book.
Salesmen says"Well what would you want to pay?"
"We are done, I asked for your best price. Since you are now suggesting a lower price your first rice was a lie."

In another current thread I cuss/discuss up-selling of Extended Warranty.

Bekeart
Cantankerous Old Coot and Proud of it.

I could not have said it better! I look at life this way........
I do all my own electrical, plumbing and carpentry work myself, I do all my own car and MC repairs and maintenance, and almost all home repairs and maintenance. I do my own repairs in our hobby and save plenty there as well. I am good at those things and save tons of $$. NO ONE, can be good at every single thing and buying a car is where I am vulnerable. Thankfully, I maintain them to the best of my ability and usually get a long life out of them.

We live in an affluent area where business owners take advantage BIG time and unfortunately they know most people will not travel very far away to save on things like a car. As many instructional video's as we watch and learn their tricks from, they can always stay a step or two ahead.

I did the best I was capable of at the time, I did not have it in me to take another week of dealer trips, haggling sessions, jerking around sessions beyond the several days we already invested buying this SUV. I had sold our other vehicle for what I thought was a descent price and I took that deal when it presented itself as I did not want that to slip away, so my wife did need a new one sooner than later. What bothers me is the way they feel they must conduct their business. As a former owner of a business, I am certainly not opposed to making a profit - America is still a Capitalist Country, I just don't care much for their ways of deception, trickery and game playing! I'll survive this torture and hopefully the vehicle will prove to be a good one. Hopefully the joy of owning this will soon make the torture fade into oblivion. WhenI was in business I never treated customers the way 99% of auto dealers do and that is mostly what bothers me.

Why didn’t you just order the car you wanted with only the features you wanted?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

We came very close to that! I did the best I could at the time and the vehicle we wanted is in demand now and I knew that going to another dealer would be pretty much the same or worse. We had gone to several before signing on ghe dotted line. They ALL play the same game!

When a Dealer is at their bottom line, they won't negotiate any lower - that's where we were. The first two dealers we went to for the same car were not any different and we were exhausted. They wore us out! I knew that and to leave, travel over an hour away over the next few days to save another $100,$200 or $300 + just wasn't on our agenda plus I would have had to start all over again- they know that too. At the end of the day we would have most likely been in the same boat!

I would normally agree, however I got a pretty descent deal selling our old vehicle and did not want to let that deal slip away. I guess you can't always have it on both ends! Because of that my wife was without a vehicle and I did not want to become a chauffeur, did not want to lease a car for 1/2 month as that would have cost more and been more hassle than it was worth. I made the call and overall I am glad it's a done deal! When buying a new car - it's almost impossible to beat the house odds - even though we try hard. The way they conduct their business is what I truly resent - it shouldn't have to be that way!

It's better now. 2 years ago the wife and I replaced a 2010 truck and 2012 Impala. The lot had exactly 2 trucks and 1 car, take 'em or leave 'em. Loaded with "options" and $10,000 "fee" added with a sharpie to the stickers, we bit. "Hosed" doesn't quite capture it. Joe

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Behavior Creates Destiny

Likely will never buy new again, and the last time i dealt with a dealer was 2005. Started having trouble with the ignition key 2 weeks ago, it just wouldn't go all the way in. Finally compared it to the several spares that were provided when new. The key was just worn down too far to work, which never happened to me before.

One concern with all the new "extras" is there are countless new interconnected things to go wrong. But the reality is i just don't drive that much anymore.

Am glad it worked out for ya, new vehicles can be very nice to have.

You have a dun deal.

If someone duns you for money you owe them, they ask you again and again for payment.

Bekeart

Guess I’m in the minority here. I think the buying process is kind of fun. I enjoy laughing at salesman and telling them I know exactly what their plan is and what they are doing. I also don’t mind telling them what I think of them if they get to aggressive or greedy. I always took my mother to buy cars and her and my wife say I’m mean to the dealers and are embarrassed to be there……. Lol

Bottom line, the closer, how much will the manager allow for the trade-in above the NADA book value. That is where there is room for negotiation. New vehicle pricing pretty firm.

Dealers read the internet too, they know all the “beat the dealer” schemes.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

I've always tried support the big three / union made. companies by buying one union made and one nonunion, mostly Honda or VW.
After watching all my recalls, getting transmissions blowing at low mileage and getting the run around from my Buick dealer, I will not buy another union made vehicle ever. Plus the unions always back those who I won't.
The difference in quality and service with my Honda and VW dealers is like night and day.

I ordered and received a new car last year and there was absolutely no bargaining at any dealership. As a matter of fact most buyers paid over list price in more populated areas of the country. The days of bargaining are over. In a way, knowing this before I walked in, I already knew what I was going to pay. I never liked trying to "deal" with the salesman who always said I will have to talk your offer over with my Sales Manager.

I was ultimately pleased that the salesman found a factory rebate offer he could use, saving me a few thousand dollars. This was after I had already ordered my car. With supplies finally catching up to demand for some makes of cars, I still do not know if we will ever get a true deal on a new car ever again?

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Basically you have to change the way the sale is going, do not let the saleslug run the show.

There are up to 3 parts to a deal.

1 If applicable how much they will give you for your trade in.

2 How much they want for the car/truck you want to buy.

3 How high the rate BS the fiance guy is trying to get you along with all the junk adds ons they want to stick you with!

Those are 3 separate things and do not let them combine them or they got you. They love to tell you you can take this vechicle out of here for this number. They mix it all up and that puts them in the cat-bird seat.

One thing you always have to keep current in your mind ''You are dealing with a professional sales person/s the best you can be is a semipro with most of the people coming in as amateurs''.

Of course you got to adapt to each dealerships MO and fine tune your strategy. As for me having bought over 60 new cars and trucks I'm far from a virgin when auto dealing.

Disclaimer I have never been in a situation I had to buy this ca/truck immediately. Even if it just got totaled in a accident we have other vechicles at the house.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

I buy one vehicle every 10-12 years. The last one, in 2019, I bought online from the only dealer that would give me an online price (I was in Iraq while pricing). Every dealer that refused to give me a price kept badgering me to 'come in and see their stock;' the dealer that apparently read my email top to bottom got my business even though I had to drive a couple of hundred miles. They still kept trying to sell me extras once I arrived, but I patiently said 'no' to all and they finally gave up.

This fits right into what biku mentioned. If you figure out what you want, look at the local purveyors website. The vehicle prices are MUCH lower than what you'll get in person. When I was looking, I found the exact car I wanted online. Went there, test drove and when the sales person started his spiel, I just mentioned the online price. He swore and walked off. Someone else did the paperwork.

We found the wife's car online, put a hold on it, then went to look & test drive. Did the deal the same day. They had added a couple of minor things like floor mats, that was OK, and tried to sell other stuff, but we didn't bite.

I'd REALLY like to see what the title paperwork they charge hundreds of dollars for is like. I refused to pay it while buying a trailer and the response was that without the paperwork, I couldn't get plates. Since the trailer was going to be farm use and never see a license plate, all I got was a certificate of origin. If I ever need to register it or get plates I guess I'll find out.

Deep in the last century I was left unattended in a sales office. I noticed a thick book that gave the dealer pricing on their vehicles. options and accessories. I quickly learned that dealer markup was around 40%. What really irked me was finding out that (at least back then) the factory paid transportation and reimbursed the dealership for dealer prep. Which, of course, they charge you for. Now, something I learned later was that most factories don't reimburse dealerships full labor costs on warranty work. Which can explain why dealerships are so reluctant to do warranty work.

Chief, let it go. You did your best, and in the big scheme of things, it's not that important. It's in the rear view mirror and fading fast, so just encourage your wife to enjoy her new car, and cruise on down the highway.

A few years back I started the search for a new vehicle. As we were down in the metropolis, lets just star at the mega dealer and see what is out there.
Found one and asked for the best price they could do. Got a price and said thanks, have just started looking and will let you know. Well that was in no way acceptable. Let me talk to my manager.
Comes back with a price of 18% lower. I said go talk to your manager again. Was a little put out with them.
Next stop was the local small town guy. Happened to have the exact same vehicle. Color and all. First price quoted was the same as the mega dealers second price.
Deal made.

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Some men, you just can't reach

Buying a new car can be painful or at least make you want to pull your hair out but I found out that if more than one person goes into a dealership;
only one is allowed to talk "Money" while the other is the "Color" person, adding this and that, to try to keep the sakes person off guard.

I don't mind paying 3% interest on a 6 year load, since I take that off the top of the price tag, first thing as I try to get a good deal.

Getting top dollor for old betsie , will hardly ever happen but 85% or more is in the ball park, if no major problems. Plus extra points if you have saved the original price sticker and contract in a envelope.

A lot of the add ons are just a way to stuff their packace with more $$$
that cost 1/3rd the price marked down, the more they can get you to get
just is more into their pockets, at the end of the sale.

Many a time I almost got a "Year old" model, with a salesman, that would not come down to my price range.
If nothing else, just tell them that it is the wrong color, to keep the ball in your court.

Even if I get the deal that I came in for, I let them know that I am still unhappy with the deal!!
Plus, I will NEVER buy a car, without a real spare tire, for Nevada hills
and back country or towing.

Did they charge you for the Trucoat?

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I saw yesterday that Hertz is hemorrhaging money on their EVs and now plans to sell off even more of their EV fleet. Maybe you could get a really good deal from them on a nearly new EV without all the pain of going through a dealership.

Not sure I would accept an EV as a gift.

The last two vehicles I bought from a dealership each took three days to get what I considered was the "best" I could do.

This was pre-pandemic of course. I walked out two days in a row on each deal and finally shook hands on the third day. Dickering about anything from price, interest rates, oil changes, etc.

Some wouldn't take the time or trouble, I don't mind. "A penny saved is a penny earned" as Ben said.

Actually saving is much better than earning. You don't pay income tax or sales tax on the money that you save.

Some people enjoy the whole process. I had a sales rep that loved to do it. He even would do it for other people. I abhor the whole process

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Who are those guys?

If you are a member of USAA or other credit union, they have cur buying services that do all of that for you. You tell them what you want, and your price, and they hammer out the details. This is usually free if they finance the car for you.

As for me, I get entertainment value out of torturing dealer staff. My wife brings popcorn and I bring a bank draft that is good for pretty much anything I want to buy.

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On the Oak Savannah

No personal experience, but I remember reading about people who you can hire to go into the dealership and negotiate for you. I don't know the fee for that.

If you are a member of USAA or other credit union, they have cur buying services that do all of that for you. You tell them what you want, and your price, and they hammer out the details. This is usually free if they finance the car for you.

As for me, I get entertainment value out of torturing dealer staff. My wife brings popcorn and I bring a bank draft that is good for pretty much anything I want to buy.

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On the Oak Savannah

I love the question “ where do u need your payment to be”? I once bought a Toyota Tacoma regular cab 4cyl 5 speed. Only options were A/C and sliding rear window. Yes it had crank up windows. The sales man asked me that question . I replied I don’t care what the payment is. He says nobody has ever told him that before. I said rates are low and it stickers under $20k. Payment is gonna be what it’s gonna be. Let’s talk about the price.

Not sure who is hated more. Car salesmen or congress critters.

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No baby we aint

When I shopped for my '18 Sportage I tested the Mazda CX-5 too. All the paid shills said the Mazda was fun to drive and the Kia was mediocre. I drove the Mazda and thought Dubya Tee Eph? This is supposed to be sporty and fun? The Sportage is way more zippy and engaging, to me. But I guess I'm not one of the special people who like certain cars because the so-called experts tell them to.

That's the game here. This is why they want to run a credit check even if you say you are paying cash. That way they get your zip code. Got a fancy golf community in your zip and the negotiating gets sticky. It doesn't help that too many of the stealerships are owned by too few umbrella companies.

The other factor in Vegas is our isolation from other population centers. they have you by the short hairs here in that respect, just like the gunstores here. It is at least 120 miles to another half serious population center (St George, UT), 200+ to CA, and 300 to Phoenix. You might find a deal in Kingman or Bullhead AZ, but don't bank on it. Buying new luxury cars in CA has become difficult. Some dealers refuse to sell to NV residents saying "it skews the market", whatever that means. I suspect it has more to do that they will never see you for service. Phoenix dealers seem much more amenable, at least on higher end used vehicles.

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Release the Kraken

Get the CX-5 with the turbo. 0-60 in 6.1.

What You Should Know About Special Ordering A New Car

No turbos for me, thanks. But I will be looking at the CX-50 when my Sportage nears its end of service.

I hope you have better luck with your new KIA than I had with mine. Both the car and dealership support were lacking.

We buy new DD’s every 4-5 years, 1-100,000,000 miles, we like the smell of new cars. Life is too short to try being the richest man in the cemetery.

Oh, we buy em loaded.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

But if you lose your key, you can start it with an iPhone USB charge cord . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Thank you for supporting my position. Dealerships make their money off people who are not willing to wait for what they actually want, and are then willing to settle for what they don’t want on the lot. Of course, this creates much angst for the purchaser, who typically then posts a lengthy diatribe about the “crooked” dealership, because they were unwilling to wait for what they wanted.

Cheap. Fast. Quality. Choose two . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Sad to say, it seems that a sunroof is always bundled with something I do want - like power windows and A/C - and cannot be deleted.
I hate the damned things. It's an expensive doodad just waiting to cause trouble. Every single sunroof I've owned, about six of them since the 1990's, has eventually leaked or failed mechanically and cost us hundreds to thousands in repairs.
I say if you want big sky above in a car or truck, buy a convertible.

I absolutely DESPISE buying a car from a dealership or even buying a home with a realtor. Afterwards I always feel like I need to make an appointment with a therapist and using a doll, explain where the BAD PERSON has hurt me.

Bought my new F250 last yr end of July. A guy in NJ ordered it but then got tired of waiting (6months). He bought something else. Apparently this part of NJ was not a hot bed for truck sales. A dealer in Manassas Va bought it from them. I bought the truck over the phone. Even worked out trade value on my 2020 GMC through emails and pics. I said when I show up if everything is not exactly as we discussed it’s no deal. Salesman says if you show up in a different truck than the one in the pics it’s no deal. I had to laugh at that. Left home at 4am. Got back at 8pm. Seamless transaction and the exact truck/options I’d have ordered myself.

Son recently bought a new Toyota , local dealers were horrible , after much internet searching he ended up finding a great no mark up , no pressure dealer 4 hours away. They beat the highest apples to apples out the door price by $9000.Do your research.