Correct sight picture.

Some interesting opinions on sighting.

You asked about the proper sight picture. Yes, hard focus on the front sight. You can do it unless you need reading glasses like I do.
 
I focus on the target while both of my sights are not perfectly in focus i can see them clearly to align them for accurate shots. I also shoot both eyes open though with my left eye squinted and slightly out of focus.... which keeps from seeing doubles.

there is no right or wrong way. you have to use what works best for you. But be open minded and try different things. I doubt the best shooters all do it the same... but clearly use what works.
 
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At pizza delivery defense distances, point shooting ability is extremely valuable, although it takes some practice to become instinctive.
I start people out close, have them take whatever sight picture they want, then have them drop their hands down only 4 inches or so, so they can see the gun but aren't looking through the sights. Use a paper plate on the target as the bullseye, because we aren't training for target groups. When it gets easy, back up and/or speed up. Learn to draw from the holster and fire without taking the time for a sight picture. A hit on the paper plate at 5 to 7 yd in less than a second is possible with practice.
Some people practice until they do it once; the good ones practice until they do it every time.
 
ckcc said:
I focus on the target while both of my sights are not perfectly in focus i can see them clearly to align them for accurate shots. I also shoot both eyes open though with my left eye squinted and slightly out of focus.... which keeps from seeing doubles.

there is no right or wrong way. you have to use what works best for you. But be open minded and try different things. I doubt the best shooters all do it the same... but clearly use what works.
Click to expand...
Looking at the target while trying to shoot at distances over say, 7 yards or so, will never get you center hits. Ask any bullseye pistol shooter, who uses iron sights, if he looks at the target at either 25 yards or 50 yards. Like I said, point shooting at close distances can be effective as long as one has good trigger control. That is the time to focus on the target.
 
Thanks, guys!

Wow, I was not expecting so many replies in such a short time! Thank you to everyone for the support and advice. I will take everyone's opinions into consideration and I will continue to work on everything I can to make myself a great defensive shooter.
 
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Apparently some reading this don't understand the concept of Target Focused Shooting, so I'll clarify it a bit. In Target Focused Shooting you still align the sights on the handgun, the difference is that the focus of your vision is on the target.

By doing this you will see just one single target if shooting with both eyes open instead of the two images yielded when focusing on the front sight. Note, keep in mind the convergence of our eyesight and it's effect when reading this statement. If you concentrate when focusing on a front sight you will observe that there are two target images in your visual field when focusing on the front sight.

So, how do you align the sights when your vision is focused on the target. It's actually very simple but you do need to be using sights designed for high visibility. If you attempt Target Focused shooting with plain black sights you'll find that you can't see the sights distinctly enough but instead must use what I call Weapon Guided Point Shooting, which does have some advantages for close ranges. What you do is bring the sights into alignment between your dominant eye and then release the trigger when that happens.

Read that last statement again and read it carefully. Then you should realize the benefit of Target Focused Shooting. That benefit is in the rate of fire. With Target Focus you don't become hyper critical about sight alignment and you don't "chase" the front sight during recoil, you release the trigger as soon as the sighting is good enough. What is surprising is just how accurate you can become with Practice.

I've spent the past summer shooting my rifles and have been neglecting my handgun practice. Two weekends ago it really showed, because I was Low and Left for most of my hour. Yesterday I got rid of the Low & Lefts about 1/3 of the way through my hour and finished up with my 45 caliber SR1911 CMD shooting a .3 second split into 7 inches at 30 feet and not one single round missed the COM. With more practice I expect to be back to 5 inches and a split in the region of .25 seconds within a month.
 
scooter123 said:
Apparently some reading this don't understand the concept of Target Focused Shooting, so I'll clarify it a bit. In Target Focused Shooting you still align the sights on the handgun, the difference is that the focus of your vision is on the target.

By doing this you will see just one single target if shooting with both eyes open instead of the two images yielded when focusing on the front sight. Note, keep in mind the convergence of our eyesight and it's effect when reading this statement. If you concentrate when focusing on a front sight you will observe that there are two target images in your visual field when focusing on the front sight.

So, how do you align the sights when your vision is focused on the target. It's actually very simple but you do need to be using sights designed for high visibility. If you attempt Target Focused shooting with plain black sights you'll find that you can't see the sights distinctly enough but instead must use what I call Weapon Guided Point Shooting, which does have some advantages for close ranges. What you do is bring the sights into alignment between your dominant eye and then release the trigger when that happens.

Read that last statement again and read it carefully. Then you should realize the benefit of Target Focused Shooting. That benefit is in the rate of fire. With Target Focus you don't become hyper critical about sight alignment and you don't "chase" the front sight during recoil, you release the trigger as soon as the sighting is good enough. What is surprising is just how accurate you can become with Practice.

I've spent the past summer shooting my rifles and have been neglecting my handgun practice. Two weekends ago it really showed, because I was Low and Left for most of my hour. Yesterday I got rid of the Low & Lefts about 1/3 of the way through my hour and finished up with my 45 caliber SR1911 CMD shooting a .3 second split into 7 inches at 30 feet and not one single round missed the COM. With more practice I expect to be back to 5 inches and a split in the region of .25 seconds within a month.
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You are shooting at 10 yards? Yeah, point shooting with practice will work at that distance as long as you have great trigger control. Focusing on the sights is required at greater distances. I'm not a fan of the current trend to ONLY shoot a handgun at close distances. You can get away with a lot of mistakes at closer distances, but longer distances will require a strict attention to sight alignment and trigger control. There is really nothing new under the sun when it comes to iron sighted handguns and accurate shooting. Scopes and red dots are another story.
 
I can hit just fine at 25 yards focusing on the target. As I said my sights... even though they are not in perfect focus.... are still clearly visible to align for accurate shots. I agree that trigger control is the key factor. As long as you're able to align the sights you will hit the target. Also when you do have the front sight in focus the rear is still blurred so how can alignment be any better. I feel that people have taken the phrase "focus on the front sight" too literally. I think it should be more attention focus not optical focus that's required. Get the front sight on target and properly squeeze the trigger and you get hits up close...take more time to align the rear sight at greater distance.
 
ckcc said:
I can hit just fine at 25 yards focusing on the target. As I said my sights... even though they are not in perfect focus.... are still clearly visible to align for accurate shots. I agree that trigger control is the key factor. As long as you're able to align the sights you will hit the target. Also when you do have the front sight in focus the rear is still blurred so how can alignment be any better. I feel that people have taken the phrase "focus on the front sight" too literally. I think it should be more attention focus not optical focus that's required. Get the front sight on target and properly squeeze the trigger and you get hits up close...take more time to align the rear sight at greater distance.
Click to expand...
We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the importance of sights on a handgun and focusing on the front sight. The manufacturers don't put them there for the tacticool factor. They actually have a use. There is no reinventing the wheel when it comes to the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship.
 
I always find these discussions interesting. Prior to Jack Weaver, no one used the sights on their pistols. They all thought that speed trumps accuracy and they were wrong. Jack came along and realized that by using his sights he would lose a tiny bit of speed, but hit the target the first time, every time. He started winning and became an icon.

Now, there are plenty of guys saying not to use the sights again because it's faster. You can say that the sights are in the picture, but the focus is on the target. That just means you're not really using the sights.

Hey, if it works for you, do it. The targets don't lie and the truth comes out at the range.
 
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Rastoff said:
Some interesting opinions on sighting.

You asked about the proper sight picture. Yes, hard focus on the front sight. You can do it unless you need reading glasses like I do.
Click to expand...

Say Rastoff, what do or how do you do it in that case?
I use my driving glass when at the range, I cant read street signs from afar. Now when at the range wearing this glass, my target is very clear, but my front sight is blurry. If I remove the glass and use my regular (non prescription) shooting glass, its the reverse, front sight is clear but target is blurry.
So what I do is, wear the regular no grade glass then stop after a running mag and wear the other one to check my target. I dont have this issue when shooting rifles.
 
potpot821 said:
Say Rastoff, what do or how do you do it in that case?
Click to expand...
An excellent question. The answer is, it depends.

For bulls-eye shooting, there's only one answer; use the glasses that allow you to see the front sight the best.

Defensive shooting doesn't allow the luxury of picking the correct lenses for the situation. You simply have to run with what you've got on. So, the question becomes, what level of accuracy is necessary?

At extremely close range, 3 yards or less, instinctive or point shooting is almost a necessity. If the bad guy is moving toward you at that distance, he'll be on you before you get the gun out. It may be worth it to create some space first and then present the gun.

At further distances, say 5 yards or more, I still use the front sight. In my case, I can't focus on the front sight without glasses. Even so, I'm still concentrating on the front sight. Yes, it's blurry, but I have the best chance of an accurate hit if I keep my concentration on the front sight.

In your case potpot821, it sounds like you're near sighted. Again, depending on the situation at hand, it might be worth it to just chuck the glasses and focus on the front sight. Even if the front sight isn't perfectly clear, concentrating on it elevates your chances of quality hits.

Focusing on the target usually means you're not using the sights at all. That drastically reduces the ability to aim. Remember, fast misses get you nothing. Slow hits are better than a miss, but you might get shot first. A balance must be achieved between speed and precision.

Regardless, I recommend concentrating on the front sight. Some will disagree with me. Meh, the target at the range doesn't lie. So, get out there and practice and see what works for you. Get a timer and put yourself under some pressure.
 
Rastoff said:
. . .
Defensive shooting doesn't allow the luxury of picking the correct lenses for the situation. You simply have to run with what you've got on. So, the question becomes, what level of accuracy is necessary?
. . .
Regardless, I recommend concentrating on the front sight.
Click to expand...

@Rastoff, thanks for this discussion about glasses.
I too have "old man's eyes" (that's any male over 40), and so I wear glasses with progressive lens. Thus I have the same issue as you brought up.

That is one of the reasons that I bought my Shield with a laser sight (Crimson Trace green). It would seem to avoid the debate of sight vs target focus -- with the laser they are one and the same (I hope).

I haven't really seen this discussed. If I am woke up ion the middle of the night I don't have to worry about even putting on my glasses. I just put the laser dot on the target and fire.

What are your thoughts about practicing and relying on use of the laser sight (in addition to using the iron sights)?
 
Easy answer: As Cooper said, "always use your sights if you can." As Clint Smith says, "if you wish to hit your target, use your sights."

There are times when you cannot get a precise target shooter's sight picture, and for those times use a "flash sight picture" or at least a very rough alignment of the firearm by getting it up within your peripheral vision, etc.

As to the proper sight picture, the front post is centered laterally in the rear notch with equal light on each side of the post, and the top of the front post should be the same height as the top of the rear sight. And, since it is impossible for your eye to focus on three things that are not the same distance from your eye, the focus is on the front sight so that the target is blurry. The rear sight is not as blurry as the target as it is closer to the front sight, on which the shooter is actually focused, but it will not be as clear as the front sight, which should be where your focus is directed.
 
BE Mike said:
We'll have to agree to disagree regarding the importance of sights on a handgun and focusing on the front sight. The manufacturers don't put them there for the tacticool factor. They actually have a use. There is no reinventing the wheel when it comes to the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I never advocated for not using the sights, only that having the front sight in focus is not always required.
 
Train to focus on the THREAT. Defensive use of a firearm is not range or competitive shooting where you shoot at a TARGET. Targets don't move erratically, dynamically and unpredictably trying to avoid your shots while shooting back at you, targets don't use cover, they don't charge you with a knife or tire iron, try to disarm you, ambush you when you least expect it etc. etc., but threats do.

Can you (and should you) really use your sights in a gunfight?

...
 
ckcc said:
Just to be clear, I never advocated for not using the sights, only that having the front sight in focus is not always required.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

Mister X,
The way I read your posts, you're advocating never using the sights in a defensive situation. Is that correct?
 
I only use focused shooting for seeing what a new defensive handgun can do and for hunting , after than I don't care much . I glance or flash on the sights to see that there centered well on a target and try to run different numbers of rounds on target for a controlled group size I work to keep all my rounds inside the center A zone of a uspsa target , that's 6x11 inch's starting at 3 yards working out to 10 yards . Then see how you do at 12 and 15 yards just so you understand whats possible .

Till you try some variation of many of the above defensive shooting styles you may not know what your capable of and until you do stop arguing , go shooting and try something new .
 
In a stressful situation you will focus on the threat (target) it's a natural, human nature thing. So if you can hit things and focus on the target, go with that method. Self defense shooting is totally different from paper target shooting. In my mind if you can focus on the target and hit it then you are using the best method for you.
Gary
 
Rastoff said:
I agree with this.

Mister X,
The way I read your posts, you're advocating never using the sights in a defensive situation. Is that correct?
Click to expand...


In all practical purposes and considering what scenarios the armed civilian is realistically likely to encounter, I think sights are pretty much irrelevant. You focus on the threat and use physical indexing methods. I do not believe a traditional sight picture/sight alignment or even a conventional flash sight picture is necessary at the probable self-defense distances and is actually counter-productive.

Sights might become more important if you needed to make a precision shot and at greater distances, but such occurrences are so improbable for the civilian to be of any great concern. I don't make training to stop an active shooter at long range or pistol sniping a priority.

Using the silhouette of the weapon for indexing, super-imposing the pistol on the mass of the threat could be called an "alternative sight picture". With the gun being brought up and extended parallel with the line of sight, who can say to what degree any given individual is aware of or uses their sights/front sight or is using an alternative sight picture to index the gun even while still focusing on the threat. Irregardless, focusing on the threat is my training policy for the most part irregardless of distance when training with a handgun, but be aware that I rarely ever train much beyond 21 feet.

...
 
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