Sawed Off Shotguns

The Last Standing Knight · Nov 22, 2016

Heard that there will be some changes in regards to Federal fire arms laws involving curios and relics, suppressors, and short barrelled rifles and shotguns.

Does anyone here think that the "sawed off" shotgun will make a comeback? Also. if it does, will it put the handgun for home defense market in jeopardy? And in closing, how will state and local laws figure into this if it does happen?

dmthomp32 · Nov 22, 2016

If "sawed off" means less than 18" of barrel length (which I believe to be the shortest for shotguns) then I imagine that would be covered under the short barreled rifles and shotguns right? I don't think sawing down a shotgun barrel by yourself is any different than buying a factory short barrel but maybe I'm in the dark on this one.... which wouldn't be the first time! Check out the Black Aces shotgun/pistol configuration if your into the short barrel without NFA regulation.

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DocB · Nov 22, 2016

An experienced LE officer told me some years ago that they don't charge people for just having a sawed off weapon. If you are arrested on another charge, they will add possession of a shortened barrel to the list of charges against you.

rwsmith · Nov 22, 2016

Apparenty 'intent'.....

DocB said:
An experienced LE officer told me some years ago that they don't charge people for just having a sawed off weapon. If you are arrested on another charge, they will add possession of a shortened barrel to the list of charges against you.

What I've read is if you saw it off with criminal intent is a crime in itself, but just sawing it off is not a big deal. I wouldn't take one outside my property, though.

UPDATE: I was told that this is incorrect by Muss Muggins. See post #25 for verbatim quote of the law and note that it forbids even possession of a sawed of shotgun. I'm not sure where I got misled but thanks to MM for pointing it out.

Muss Muggins · Nov 22, 2016

DocB said:
An experienced LE officer told me some years ago that they don't charge people for just having a sawed off weapon. If you are arrested on another charge, they will add possession of a shortened barrel to the list of charges against you.

I wouldn't bet my felony free life on that statement. I never knew a cop that would pass up a chance to file a federal charge. I used to see lots of fellas whose wife called the cops to report a domestic violence incident and then mentioned "By the way, he's got a sawed off shotgun behind the door." The cops lost all interest in the domestic violence part of the call pretty quickly. As for actually firing a short barrelled shotgun, last guy I saw at the range with a tricked out 14" barrel 12 gauge blacked his own eye. An ATFE agent I knew cut his finger test firing a 12" double barrel with the shoulder stock also sawed off. Looked like Jerry Reed's shotgun in Gator. I wouldn't want either one.

WR Moore · Nov 22, 2016

There is some effort at hand to try to remove suppressors from federal regulation. Not that I'm listening hard, but I'm not aware of anything on barrel length and would expect it's pipe dreams. No pun intended. Home hacksaw jobs are still covered by NFA rules.

Quite a few states have their own regulations on what constitutes a short barreled long gun. What ever the feds might or might not do has no effect on state law.

And, all things considered, SBR/SBS still need two hands to operate, can have vicious recoil and would have little, if any effect on handgun sales.

Muss Muggins · Nov 22, 2016

rwsmith said:
What I've read is if you saw it off with criminal intent is a crime in itself, but just sawing it off is not a big deal. I wouldn't take one outside my property, though.

That is incorrect.

Watchdog · Nov 22, 2016

DocB said:
An experienced LE officer told me some years ago that they don't charge people for just having a sawed off weapon. If you are arrested on another charge, they will add possession of a shortened barrel to the list of charges against you.

I don't know about other states, but in this state, you can also be charged with possessing a weapon of mass destruction. Seriously. Especially if it's a heavily/dangerously modified shotgun.

And for normal "sawed off" shotguns, the 18-inch barrel limitation isn't the only requirement. The gun, itself, can't be shorter than 26-inches overall.

WR Moore · Nov 22, 2016

rwsmith said:
What I've read is if you saw it off with criminal intent is a crime in itself, but just sawing it off is not a big deal. I wouldn't take one outside my property, though.

I don't know where you read that, but by Federal Statute, when you cut it off too short, you committed a criminal act............unless you're a duly licensed manufacturer of such devices.

colt_saa · Nov 22, 2016

The Hearing Protection Act of 2015 did not pass the 114th Congress.

It is believed that the legislation has a good chance under the incoming Administration

Not only does it remove suppressors from Title II of the NFA it also preempts the existing State Laws regarding suppressors.

The legislation does not alter the status of Shot Barreled Shotguns or AOWs

I built this one for myself last summer.

I also have one of the NEW Mossbergs on order

Faulkner · Nov 22, 2016

You might want to reach out to Randy Weaver and see how much heartache sawed off shotguns can be.

colt_saa · Nov 22, 2016

DocB said:
An experienced LE officer told me some years ago that they don't charge people for just having a sawed off weapon. If you are arrested on another charge, they will add possession of a shortened barrel to the list of charges against you.

While it is at the extreme edge of the issue, I think Randy Weaver would disagree with that comment

Tom K · Nov 22, 2016

Seems to me that a short barrel rifle with a supresssor attached would be a great hunting rig, no longer than a normal rifle overall and much easier on the ears. It seems really dumb that such a setup currently requires two tax stamps and wouldn't be legal to use for hunting in many places.

rburg · Nov 22, 2016

dmthomp32 said:
If "sawed off" means less than 18" of barrel length (which I believe to be the shortest for shotguns) then I imagine that would be covered under the short barreled rifles and shotguns right? I don't think sawing down a shotgun barrel by yourself is any different than buying a factory short barrel but maybe I'm in the dark on this one.... which wouldn't be the first time! Check out the Black Aces shotgun/pistol configuration if your into the short barrel without NFA regulation.

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A while back the ATF argued in court that merely having a shotgun and a hack saw amounted to owning a sawed off shotgun. I think the judge couldn't stop laughing.

Muss Muggins · Nov 22, 2016

rburg said:
A while back the ATF argued in court that merely having a shotgun and a hack saw amounted to owning a sawed off shotgun. I think the judge couldn't stop laughing.

I'd like to see a link to a news article or a case cite . . .

Ivan the Butcher · Nov 23, 2016

IN the 80's and 90's I had a 12 gauge Crescent SxS that someone had cut the barrels to 22". It was great handling. It actually scattered a pattern more than I liked, but then I wasn't trying to rob banks.

Ivan

Bib · Nov 23, 2016

Ivan the Butcher said:
IN the 80's and 90's I had a 12 gauge Crescent SxS that someone had cut the barrels to 22". It was great handling. It actually scattered a pattern more than I liked, but then I wasn't trying to rob banks.

Ivan

I was given a Crescent 12ga SxS by a family member....it was 30" F/F. I cut it to 19". It balances and swings like a champ. Recoil???... I use my own reloads which are a hair under 7/8 oz. I wouldn't want to cut it any shorter

da gimp · Nov 23, 2016

Bonk. it is a serious federal felony to cut down a rifle or shotgun to be less than the minimum federal lengths. Only someone who subscribes to the beliefs of those weirdo types who claim that all taxes & courts are illegal utter that type of thing.. many, many people have gone to prison for merely possessing one. Do not urge someone to commit a serious felony here.

BAM-BAM · Nov 23, 2016

Just get the Mossberg Thunder ranch O/U......... 18" barrels and tatic-cooool rails..........

Have to admit I've thought about one for ATV/RZR use in Penn's Woods.

IMHO a shotgun without a stock.... may look cool...... and may work in the movies...... I wouldn't waste my money on one!!!

steelslaver · Nov 23, 2016

I had an Savage doublee (311?)) Ended up with a Winchester double and a Remington 870. Cut the Savage to 18.5 barrels and shortened the stoke some. Handy dandy. Mostly it rides around in the back seat of the truck (empty) during hunting season. Deer hunting and run into some pheasants or some turkeys gun. I wouldn't want it any shorter, loose to much control and it is very compact now. Some things have a useful length length limit.

Sawed Off Shotguns

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