Sringfield trapdoor rifle

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dodgecharger

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I am going to look at a Springfield trapdoor rifle to possibly buy.
Anything you guys can tell me about them would be a great help. I know they aren't as valuable as a trapdoor carbine. I have absolutely no knowledge of them at all. Just kinda like it from a historical perspective and would like to be able to shoot it once in a while.
 
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I too was very intrigued by them. Picked up a rifle and a carbine over the years but have yet to shoot them. Of course, black powder would be my only choice and I don't mess with that stuff.
Lot of fun shooting other peoples though. I just sorta hold them and think of where they may have been etc..
Some good info here :
The U.S. Springfield Trapdoor Rifle Information Center
 
Get the best specimen you can afford. They are a real pleasant experience at the range. Ammo is available, look for '45-70 Government' loads (assuming that is the caliber of the one you are looking at).
 
My dad gave me his Trapdoor Springfield because I was active in Cowboy Action Shooting. Be sure that the the breech looks up well. If you reload be careful about what set of loads you use, because some 45-70 loads are way too much for the Trapdoor Springfield as opposed to the 1886 Winchester or the modern Marlin 1895 rifle.

Enjoy the historical significance of a Trapdoor Springfield. I was in a movie set out west in the 1890s. I played the part of a reservation Indian Policeman, and to round out my character, I carried my Trapdoor Springfield. During the shooting of the movie I became somewhat of a living history exhibit showing to a number of the people there how the Trapdoor Springfield worked.
 
1866 Allen (conversion) Ammo 58-56

1870 Springfield AMMO Rifle: 50-70 Carbine 50-50

1873 Springfield Ammo Rifle: 45-70-500
Carbine in the same cartridge case: 45-50-405

1888 Springfield ammo Same as 1873

The 1870 rifle and Carbine were designed to use completely different cartridges! If a 50-70 fits in a Carbine, it is actually a cut down rifle or parts gun! (The 50-50 Carbine ammo is safe to use in a Rifle)

The 1873 & 1888 were designed to use different loadings for Rifles and Carbines and the sights are set to the correct ammo! But they could use each others ammo in an emergency. (The Rifle loading is brutal in a carbine!)

Ivan

There are also Officers Model 1873, the look like a shortened/sporterized Rifle. They have much better sights, an add-on pistol grip, early models are in 45-70 (45 2.1"), later models will also fire 45-90 (45 2.6"). Each Officers Model was a Custom order from Springfield and many have custom features and inlay name plates. Officers supplied their own weapons and ammo The War with Spain, and many still did until WWI.

There are converted models to 20 gauge shot gun. None are proven to be done by Springfield! The Army did have 45 2.1" case/3 round ball ammo for goose hunting. Peter's Ammunition also made this load until the 1920's. (Frontier outposts were expected to supplement their meat rations with wild game It was usually much better quality than the cows they were rationed!) ITB
 
From pictures I have received it is an 1873 rifle with a serial no. of 36588. I will know more when I see it in person. Keep it coming guys the more I know the better. I had thought all trapdoors were 45/70. Now I know that isn't the case. (Thank you Ivan). Is there any to tell for sure what it is chambered in? I don't have any cartridges of any kind for a trapdoor.
 
Looking forward to pictures. Mine has been shot but not so much anymore. My carbine serial number is in the 140,000s.


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dodgecharger said:
From pictures I have received it is an 1873 rifle with a serial no. of 36588. I will know more when I see it in person. Keep it coming guys the more I know the better. I had thought all trapdoors were 45/70. Now I know that isn't the case. (Thank you Ivan). Is there any to tell for sure what it is chambered in? I don't have any cartridges of any kind for a trapdoor.
Click to expand...


Your serial number puts your production date as 1875......


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It is not recommended to shoot modern ammo in these old guns unless the manufacturer of said ammo says it is OK (will state so on box) to shoot in original rifles. The original load for the rifle was 70 grains of black powder and a 500 grain soft lead bullet. It kicks like mule! I reload my ammo with 60 grains of BP and a 405 grain bullet. Original loadings will generally shoot low by 12 inches at 100 yards. When shooting BP, I swab the bore with a wet patch every 5 rounds so that the bore doesn't get cloded up with residue. There is a website that can answer yur questions called 'trapdoor collectors'. Also Al Frasca has a website and sells all kinds of trapdoors and accessories. Google 'Al Frasca'. Be wary if the lock plate has been removed. You can tell if it has by looking at the edges where they broke the original sealant (finish) cause someone probably boogered up the internals Also check the firing pin, they do break!
 
A lot of Trapdoor Springfields were purchased surplus by Bannerman’s in the early 1900’s. They rebuilt them, refinished the wood and metal and sold them for a few dollars. It’s not unusual to find these in seemingly good condition, but the breechblocks (trapdoor) and breech screw (tang) on these were blued. They can make fine shooters, but they’re not really collectable.

Original guns in good + condition are quite scarce and valuable and will have case color hardened breechblocks and breech screws. Stocks should have visible cartouches on the left side at the wrist and various proof and inspector marks on the bottom. There were a number of changes made over the years and many guns have been rebuilt/restored. Be careful! I have a friend at the Michigan Antique Arms shows who is an expert on these. Unless it was a “no-brainer” deal, I’d get his opinion on any potential purchase.

Here’s a link to a completed auction for a very high condition rifle, that illustrates what they originally looked like. If it’s a restoration, they did a world class job! You may need to be sighted into GB to view it, but the 49 photos are worth it!

UNISSUED ANTIQUE U.S SPRINGFIELD MODEL 1884 45/70 TRAPDOOR RIFLE NO RESERVE - Antique Guns at GunBroker.com : 883236257

dodgecharger said:
Is there any to tell for sure what it is chambered in? I don't have any cartridges of any kind for a trapdoor.
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Take a .45 caliber bullet or a .45 Colt or .45 ACP cartridge with you and check the muzzle. If it’s a .50-70 Springfield, you’ll know it!
 
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I've owned a number of trapdoors over the years. Everything from $400 shooters to a very high conditioned rifle I bought from Al Frasca probably 25 or 30 years ago. There's no need to shoot blackpowder unless you just want to, but you do need to stick to lead bullets and "cowboy" or loads suitable or old rifles. Jacketed bullets will eat up the rifling in those guns.
 
Don't know if anyone mentioned it a few things first make sure the ejector isn't broke it should flip outward when opening the trapdoor for loading or unloading if it doesn't move it is either broke or froze in place not uncommon to see them broken. Second check the rifling and crown. Be aware the bores on these vary dimensionality so reloading is your friend.
Edit also long wrist with early sights is a plus collector wise the Buffington sight is better for a shooter but should not be found on early guns. Really lots of variations too many to mention. Custard era carbines a whole different world fakes abound.
 
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dodgecharger said:
From pictures I have received it is an 1873 rifle with a serial no. of 36588. I will know more when I see it in person. Keep it coming guys the more I know the better. I had thought all trapdoors were 45/70. Now I know that isn't the case. (Thank you Ivan). Is there any to tell for sure what it is chambered in? I don't have any cartridges of any kind for a trapdoor.
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Your SN puts you in a 45-70 chambering. (I know I mentioned 45-90, but that is in Officer's Model only and the vast majority of those were still in 45-70.)

Ivan
 
I always fancied owning one and had a friend that owned a dozen or more. He sold me an armory fresh '73 with matching correct bayonet and frog for a little over $1500 a couple years ago. This thing looks like it never left an arms room, they are very pretty when in this condition. He recommended that I read certain book, according to him it was written by the guy that "wrote the book" on the Trapdoor Springfield. I did get the book and read it cover to cover and indeed it does cover everything you need to know about caring for and shooting a Trapdoor. His load information is very good as well. Sadly I cannot find it right this moment, someone else may know exactly what I'm talking about. It was a spiral bound book and available through Amazon I believe. I located the book it is by J.S. and Pat Wolf it is called "Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine."
Mine came with Buffington sights and although many people like them I'm used to much better sights, the windage adjustment is difficult to work with in my opinion, repeated accurate shots are not as easy as with my muzzle loaders equipped with target sights. Battle sight zero is around 150 yds with the standard load, they are battle rifles not target shooters. Training had you aiming at the guys beltline and smart rifleman shot the horse.
 
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Kinman said:
Mine came with Buffington sights...
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Some would say that makes your rifle an 1884 model even though the Buffington site wasn't on the very early 1884's. The 1884 marked breech block supposedly didn't start appearing till 1887, so earlier 1884's will have earlier dates.
 
diyj98 said:
Some would say that makes your rifle an 1884 model even though the Buffington site wasn't on the very early 1884's. The 1884 marked breech block supposedly didn't start appearing till 1887, so earlier 1884's will have earlier dates.
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Well...I stand corrected, I dug it out and low and behold its marked US MODEL 1878

 
Kinman said:
Well...I stand corrected, I dug it out and low and behold its marked US MODEL 1878

[/QUOTE

Actually the breech block is stamped 1873. The "3" on some of these were heavily struck and look like an "8", but it's a "3". There were no breech blocks marked "1878". The rifle would still probably be called an 1884. Is the trigger serrated or smooth?
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