You must plan on missing a lot

Naphtali

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Some friends and I went to our handgun range. We shot my "for-arthritics" customized Freedom Arms 45 Colt Model 97s and a Blackhawk 45 Colt. We fired some sort of Glock 10 mm that had a bazillion cartridge magazine that Chuck had just bought.

The 45s were shooting my 305-grain Saeco SWC-GCs 21.92 grains H110, and so on, that render my 97s and the Blackhawk into a "super" 44 Magnum. While the ammunition is beastly to shoot, the 97s are close to comfortable, very easy to shoot accurately, and very accurate.

The only semiautomatics I own are Ruger 10/22 and Mk. III target pistol. The last centerfire pistol I fired was my father's M1911A1 he brought home from the Philippines after World War II.

. . . And then I shot the Glock. Its trigger action was somewhat different from what I expect from a handgun. Trigger take-up was more than a quarter inch. Then came creep. Finally ignition. My dad's 45 was glass-like compared with the Glock's trigger. My being spoiled by using Model 97s is still an inadequate explanation. I asked whether this trigger action is normal. The answers were disheartening. "Yes," and "This is how it came."

What immediately came into my head were several versions of an adage I believe originated with the late Jeff Cooper: "You must plan on missing a lot." Then, I thought of how Glocks and Glock-like striker-fired semiautomatics are standard issue with police. And how little time many (most??) police invest in maintaining or improving their proficiency with their handgun. And how much more time and effort it would take to achieve and maintain a level of proficiency that would allow me to feel comfortable with that same handgun.

Does the one Glock I fired have a normal trigger action in your judgment?

If it is normal, is it routine for police department armorers to improve trigger actions of these pistols before their being issued?

Do larger police departments maintain a continuing regimen of practice to reduce the likelihood poorly aimed shooting?

Are my questions, or doubts, about these pistols valid, my having semiautomatic pistol experience with only a well-worn 1911A1 and the Glock 10 mm?
 
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You're comparing single action to striker action, they do different things and the triggers are quite different as a result.

As far as the missing alot bit, I'll roll my eyes at it and move on.

It's absolutely easy to train new shooters on striker fired guns, you don't have to worry about external safeties, training on both double/single action, decocking, etc., just draw and fire. Just because you don't care for the trigger doesn't mean it's hard to learn or a bad system.
 
That's normal and you're not going to ever get as good of a trigger on a stock striker fired gun as you will on many stock 1911s or DA/SA autos or revolvers.

Striker fired guns like the Glock use some of the trigger pull to actually finish cocking the gun before it fires.

I too much prefer shooting all metal semi-autos or revolvers to plastic striker fired autos, however i do have a couple for carry and competition. There are plenty of videos for you to check out of guys burning up IDPA courses with Glocks.

They serve their purpose.

You can be proficient in any of them with training...that's the most important thing regardless of the OS you choose in your firearm.

Regarding high capacity: The Browning Hi Power has been around since the 1930s. It's nothing new. Double stack magazines certainly weren't invented by Glock in the 1980s.
 
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Some Glock triggers are better than others. I have a gen 3 Glock 17 that has a really good trigger from the factory. All the other Glocks I've owned take some work to get a trigger that good. There are a few mods that can be done that each make minor improvements to the trigger feel and pull weight.

I have no idea what most police depts do on there guns, however I've heard that New York actually increases the pull weight to make unintentional discharges less likely.
 
Some Glock triggers are better than others. I have a gen 3 Glock 17 that has a really good trigger from the factory. All the other Glocks I've owned take some work to get a trigger that good. There are a few mods that can be done that each make minor improvements to the trigger feel and pull weight.

I have no idea what most police depts do on there guns, however I've heard that New York actually increases the pull weight to make unintentional discharges less likely.

That's the NY-1 trigger, which is just awful. If ever there was an example of why you don't use a mechanical solution to a training problem, that's the one.
 
In my honest opinion the Glock is the ONLY semiauto that approaches the reliability of a double action revolver. All my serious personal handguns are either S&W revolvers or Glocks. I own many others but they are teaching tools and range toys.

I consider the Glock to be the best of the striker fired pistols just as I consider the Smith to be the best revolver. That's just my opinion. I know that in 2000 when I transitioned to autos after 22 years of double action revolver shooting, the Glock was the only striker fired pistol available and that it offered the most 'revolver like' semiauto handling. There are striker fired pistols with better triggers now, but none that have proven themselves to me over 20 years.

The Glock trigger can be stiffer than I like out of the box but smooths out in 1000 rounds or so. A Glock armorer I shot with for years would polish (his word) factory parts in new Glocks to achieve that 'smooth out' immediately. He always strongly advised against installing aftermarket parts.

The whole thing is this: What do you train with. A police instructor that uses my range had the New York trigger forced on him by his department. A year later he installed it in all his personal Glocks. He said once he mastered it he preferred it because the stiffer spring improved his pistols lock time and trigger reset. I can't say I like his triggers but they sure work for him.

I can't help but notice how striker fired pistol shooters are always amazed when they see someone shooting well with one of those 'awful double action revolver triggers'!
 
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Are my questions, or doubts, about these pistols valid, my having semiautomatic pistol experience with only a well-worn 1911A1 and the Glock 10 mm?

Nope.

In nearly 30 years of instructing, I've seen plenty of people that couldn't hit a barn from the inside, no matter what they were shooting. I've also seen plenty of people that were scary accurate and fast, no matter what gun they picked up.

The truth is that most shooters are somewhere in the middle, but success is in practice and training. It's not surprising that you didn't impress yourself the first time you picked it up. You should hear new shooters that are used to striker guns complain about D/A revolvers the first time they shoot one! :p

For combat style shooting, I can hit just as fast and accurately with my M&P as I can with my 1911. And I get 50% more ammo on my duty belt with a reduction in overal weight. I'll take that advantage every time.

Can I shoot more accurately with my 1911, slow fire bullseye? Sure, but I have a Model 14 that's even better... courses for horses. :D
 
I have no idea what most police depts do on there guns, however I've heard that New York actually increases the pull weight to make unintentional discharges less likely.

Some Glock folks say the NY1 and even heavier NY2 trigger springs are less prone to breakage than the factory coil trigger spring. The use of the NY1 trigger spring with the 3.5 lb connector is the best Glock trigger option giving pull that feels like a nice double action revolver trigger.
 
Some Glock folks say the NY1 and even heavier NY2 trigger springs are less prone to breakage than the factory coil trigger spring. The use of the NY1 trigger spring with the 3.5 lb connector is the best Glock trigger option giving pull that feels like a nice double action revolver trigger.

This was the common theory awhile ago, I tried it in a few glocks and no, it does not feel like a double action trigger, just a crummier Glock trigger.
 
This was the common theory awhile ago, I tried it in a few glocks and no, it does not feel like a double action trigger, just a crummier Glock trigger.
I tried that as well in my Glock and did not enjoy the NY-1 trigger. I'm a fan of revolvers and have no issues with shooting DA, that trigger change did not do it for me though.

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I think this is an apples and oranges comparison on several levels. :)

A single action revolver intended for target or hunting work had better have the nicest trigger possible, or a way to get it there. Ease of use, rapidity of fire and reloading are probably secondary to precision.

A duty pistol (at least in this day and age, and probably indefinitely) has to be reliable, easy to use and fast to get into action. Precision target work may be possible with trigger work or other modifications, but that is not its primary function.

And with due respect to Col. Cooper, he did famously recount an incident in which an acquaintance of his fought off several attackers with a Browning P35 and only one magazine. Sometimes that extra 6 (10, 12) rounds may make a difference.
 
Years ago I was at the range with a friend who was shooting a couple of Glock models. Not being a fan, I did have to ask to shoot them, anyway, just to see what the fuss was all about.

They were easy to shoot, I had no problem hitting the targets, and I came away satisfied that if folks like them more power to them or if a law enforcement agency insists on Glocks, well, okay, make it so Chief of Police.

I was satisfied that they worked and that I was quickly competent with a Glock. That said, I haven't bothered with a Glock since. Give me 3rd Gen S&Ws every day. ;)
 
Boy, the OP must have been hiding under a very large rock for a very long time not to have heard how a Glock trigger feels. :)

To answer his questions:

1) Yes, that is the typical feel of a stock Glock trigger

2) No, departments do not have them fettled for liability reasons. Not happening. Ever.

3) It depends on what you and they think is necessary in terms of accuracy. I've only used a Glock a few times, and I was plenty accurate enough for social work. Remember, these days the standard is not "as accurate as humanly and mechanically possible", it is "accurate enough to eliminate the threat at 7-10 yards". You will likely disagree, as do many on here.

There are a raft of other striker fired pistols with much better triggers than the average issue Glock. Here are some I have tried or own.

Walther PPQ
Canik TP9SFL
Steyr M9
Grand Power Q1s
Walther PPS M2

The following are better than a Glock, but not as good as those above.

Springfield XD
S&W M&P 1.0

The one everybody raves about, but I've never tried, is the H&K VP9.
 
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Going from one trigger system (to which you are accustomed) to another completely different trigger system (to which you are NOT accustomed), is hardly a fair comparison.

Once you take the time to learn the Glock trigger, you'll probably find that it is just as good as any other system for a service handgun. I did a lot of careful dry-firing with mine and that's what happened. Most military and police personnel worldwide who are trained on Glocks haven't fired anything else and learn it quite well.

The triggers on my High Power and my Glock are quite different, but as long as I remember which one I just picked up, they both work quite well.
One is prettier and one is more accurate and reliable.
 
Pretty normal trigger for a Glock. Remember, it's Glock perfection, which explains why there have been 6 generations of the design. Saying that, I will now sprint for the exit door.
 
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