Wasp waisted reloads revisited

WR Moore

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Awhile back there was a thread on why sometimes the pistol bullet bulges the case. I had to change shell holders for 9mm and got involved in what turned into an hours long effort to get everything back into adjustment. Some observations:

The actual intent of handgun cartridge sizing dies is to produce an inside diameter of the case that will provide proper tension on the bullet so it stays in place during the feed cycle/recoil. That tension also affects powder burn and velocity variation. However, it does that by squeezing the outside diameter of the case and there's the problem.

Case wall thickness varies for all cases. Just grabbing a few 9mm cases of various makes I found that case wall thickness ran from a smidgen under 0.010 in to 0.014 inches. Most ran in the 10-12 range and the differences will double any diameter variation. The good folks who make reloading dies have to make their stuff to work on everything. (OK, they may make make dies for the major manufacturers, but those are likely to their specifications.)

Obviously, if you make your sizing dies so that they'll work on thin brass, they'll oversize thicker brass. Then, when you stick a bullet in there, the case ends up a larger diameter than what's below the bullet. OK, it may look a tad funny, but it works. OBTW, factory ammo is that way too, it's just that the differences are smaller because they know what their case wall thickness is and create their tooling to suit. They're also working with virgin brass.

I may need to fine tune the crimp adjustment due to case overall length variations. New Starline is correct length, some other brands seem a bit short, may be lot to lot variation.
 
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Not to rain on your parade, but..............

I have found that even if you sort your brass, per companies

there might still be a difference in wall thickness.

A few years back, I was having a lot of chamber fit problems,
when I got into the new coated lead bullets for my 9mm pistols.

Some companies have 3-4 different diamiters to choose from,
which I found out could prevent a round going home.

Have fun.
 
Buy a sizing die that applies the correct taper to the case, when sized. RCBS has a carbide tapered insert.

The new expanders are M type.
 

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I've never been concerned about wasp waisted straight walled cases.

In a semi auto pistol cartridge where the case headspaces on the case mouth, the case cannot be roll crimped and needs to be sized smaller than bullet diameter to provide adequate tension to prevent the bullet from moving out of the case due to recoil, or getting pushed deeper in the case during the chambering process.

It can be accomplished with a taper crimp applied during or after seating, or it can be accomplished by sizing the case so it is undersized and is expanded slightly as the bullet it seated. both work just fine.

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In some instances, there can be issues, such as seating a .311"-.312" bullet in a European made 7.65 Browning case designed to be used with a .309" bullet. European 7.65 Browning cases usually have thicker case walls at the mouth than US .32 ACP cases that are designed for .311" bullets.

Where it can run off the rails is when you seat a .312" cast bullet into a 7.65 Browning case then they try to chamber it in a pistol with tight chamber specs like the Walther PP. It usually won't chamber, or won't want to extract if you want to unload it.

They often also don't look particularly wasp waisted, although there is obviously some of that going on.

in any case with cast bullets, I post size the assembled round to size the competed cartridge to ensure it will chamber in a tight chamber.
 
Buy a sizing die that applies the correct taper to the case, when sized. RCBS has a carbide tapered insert.

The new expanders are M type.

You assume. I got RCBS way back (middle 80's of the last century) when they first introduced the carbide insert for 9mm. Was the ONLY tapered insert at the time. Still have that set plus a newer version with the M type expander.

The condition exists on straight wall cases also.

Nevada Ed, I've been aware of production tolerances for decades. Hence the first 7 words in the third paragraph.
 
Wasp waist has nothing to do with thick/thin brass or sizing dies.

It has everything to do with the expander die & more specifically. The expander button.

Under expanded brass for the bullet diameter/bullet length will show up as wasp waist reloads.
 
Not to rain on your parade, but..............

I have found that even if you sort your brass, per companies

there might still be a difference in wall thickness.

A few years back, I was having a lot of chamber fit problems,
when I got into the new coated lead bullets for my 9mm pistols.

Some companies have 3-4 different diamiters to choose from,
which I found out could prevent a round going home.

Have fun.

It sounds to me like your bullets are over-sized. Have you measured them?
 
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Wasp waist has nothing to do with thick/thin brass or sizing dies.

It has everything to do with the expander die & more specifically. The expander button.

Under expanded brass for the bullet diameter/bullet length will show up as wasp waist reloads.

I will kindly disagree with this statement. I use an undersize sizing die for range pick-up 9mm brass. Belling the case mouth and seating the bullet creates wasp waist.

Using a regular sizing die produces less of a wasp waist. For the record I use a Dillon Powder funnel in a Dillon 750 for my brass expansion.

I do not worry about the wasp waist, I think it helps prevent bullet set back.
 
Belling the case mouth and seating the bullet creates wasp waist.

Ya, when you use an undersized expander die.

2 different bullets I cast for the 9mm.
muTFYp1.jpg


The green bullet is a 125gr fn hp that is .595" long.
The red bullet is a 140gr fn hb bullet that is .695" long.
Both are sized to .358" and seated to an oal of 1.130"

A factory 9mm expander (left) next to a custom expander used to bell the cases that seated those .358" bullets pictured above.
aFsP8TI.jpg


The longer/larger expander bells the case larger in diameter/deeper for the longer/larger in diameter bullets.
vnmkz9e.jpg


Pretty simple:
Use the factory expander pictured above and get wasp waist.
Use the custom expander and get a normal looking reload.

Wouldn't matter if I used an under-sizing die or a normal sizing die. The correct expander die belling the case stops wasp waist.
 
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