Curious - Were there any PC Single Action Only 3rd gen pistols, possibly Competition only. Was that a requirement for some Competition? And if they had Slide mounted Safeties, how did the Safety operate - decock or just disconnect innerds?
3rd Generation Single Action Only question
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I think it’s hard to determine what qualifies as “3rd Gen” when discussing PC guns. Here’s what I mean.
You could argue the 845 is a “3rd Gen” simply because it also used the one-piece 3rd Gen grip. At the same time, you might argue that a 952 is not a 3rd Gen because it does not use the one-piece grip and if anything, it corresponds best with a Model 52, which would be a 1st Gen pistol.
So for me and for the way I frame and care about the information and discussion, I simply won’t ever call -ANY- Performance Center pistol as ANY 1-2-3rd Gen. Since they use different barrels, different safeties, different trigger parts and different hammer parts and use a Briley spherical bushing — for me, a PC gun is exactly that, a PC gun and not any 1-2-3rd Gen.
With that said, there exists one odd pistol that is not a PC gun but would be considered a 3rd Gen that is also a single action only pistol. That would be the Super 9. It’s slide mounted safety is NOT a decocker and would be best described as a hammer block.
In the 1st Gen series, the 52 is single action only. Again, a hammer block safety. And in the 2nd Gen group, the .45cal Model 745 again uses a hammer block safety, no decocker.
In reading your post again, you asked if it was no decocker or “just disconnect the innerds”
Actually, no, it does not disconnect anything inside.
On the 52 or 745 (or 952, 845, 4006 Limited, 3566 Limited, PPC-9 or the Target Champion variants of those models, you can rotate the lever to safe and still squeeze the trigger and drop the hammer — however applying the safety locks the firing pin in place and also blocks the hammer from hitting it.
You could argue the 845 is a “3rd Gen” simply because it also used the one-piece 3rd Gen grip. At the same time, you might argue that a 952 is not a 3rd Gen because it does not use the one-piece grip and if anything, it corresponds best with a Model 52, which would be a 1st Gen pistol.
So for me and for the way I frame and care about the information and discussion, I simply won’t ever call -ANY- Performance Center pistol as ANY 1-2-3rd Gen. Since they use different barrels, different safeties, different trigger parts and different hammer parts and use a Briley spherical bushing — for me, a PC gun is exactly that, a PC gun and not any 1-2-3rd Gen.
With that said, there exists one odd pistol that is not a PC gun but would be considered a 3rd Gen that is also a single action only pistol. That would be the Super 9. It’s slide mounted safety is NOT a decocker and would be best described as a hammer block.
In the 1st Gen series, the 52 is single action only. Again, a hammer block safety. And in the 2nd Gen group, the .45cal Model 745 again uses a hammer block safety, no decocker.
In reading your post again, you asked if it was no decocker or “just disconnect the innerds”
Actually, no, it does not disconnect anything inside.On the 52 or 745 (or 952, 845, 4006 Limited, 3566 Limited, PPC-9 or the Target Champion variants of those models, you can rotate the lever to safe and still squeeze the trigger and drop the hammer — however applying the safety locks the firing pin in place and also blocks the hammer from hitting it.
Aside from that rundown, a couple of guns distinguish themselves a little differently than the others.
The 952-1 and 952-2 also employ a grip safety. This grip safety actuates the unlocking of the firing pin.
And the 52’s and 952’s also make use of the magazine disconnect safety, which I say is noteworthy when you consider that NONE of the other single action only PC guns (and also the Model 745) also use the magazine disconnect safety.
I have opined in the past that a magazine disconnect safety on the 52 and the 952 is extremely annoying. -YES- there are plenty of folks that bellyache about the magazine disconnect safety on any/every S&W semiautomatic pistol, but my argument is far more streamlined.
On all the production DA/SA guns with a magazine disconnect safety, a simple flip of the slide mount level drops the hammer for you. But on the 52/952, there is ZERO method for lowering the hammer without a magazine, and I find that ludicrous and obnoxious.
“Well just take it out, sheeesh”
Sure, I would love to, but you have to remove the rear sight in its dovetail to do that. Ridiculous.
The 952-1 and 952-2 also employ a grip safety. This grip safety actuates the unlocking of the firing pin.
And the 52’s and 952’s also make use of the magazine disconnect safety, which I say is noteworthy when you consider that NONE of the other single action only PC guns (and also the Model 745) also use the magazine disconnect safety.
I have opined in the past that a magazine disconnect safety on the 52 and the 952 is extremely annoying. -YES- there are plenty of folks that bellyache about the magazine disconnect safety on any/every S&W semiautomatic pistol, but my argument is far more streamlined.
On all the production DA/SA guns with a magazine disconnect safety, a simple flip of the slide mount level drops the hammer for you. But on the 52/952, there is ZERO method for lowering the hammer without a magazine, and I find that ludicrous and obnoxious.
“Well just take it out, sheeesh”
Sure, I would love to, but you have to remove the rear sight in its dovetail to do that. Ridiculous.
OP
Thanks - that answers my question precisely.
So on a PPC9 or the others you mention, if you chose to rack the slide and apply the safety then drop the hammer, you would then cock the hammer with your thumb and undo the safety to fire - sounds like a dedicated target pistol.
So on a PPC9 or the others you mention, if you chose to rack the slide and apply the safety then drop the hammer, you would then cock the hammer with your thumb and undo the safety to fire - sounds like a dedicated target pistol.
Yes, that’s exactly true the way you put it.
I believe that fully adjustable Bomar style sights and the elite single action only target trigger also help to define them as target guns.
The triggers are also interesting.
The 845 is adjustable but only for the amount of pre-travel.
The 52 and 745 are adjustable for pre-travel and over travel and those two work the same way.
The 952, and all the others I listed in a post above are also adjustable for pre-travel and over travel, but they adjust the over travel in a completely different way than the earlier 52 and 745.
I believe that fully adjustable Bomar style sights and the elite single action only target trigger also help to define them as target guns.
The triggers are also interesting.
The 845 is adjustable but only for the amount of pre-travel.
The 52 and 745 are adjustable for pre-travel and over travel and those two work the same way.
The 952, and all the others I listed in a post above are also adjustable for pre-travel and over travel, but they adjust the over travel in a completely different way than the earlier 52 and 745.
I'm not very interested in the target type guns, but I do have to say that the magazine disconnect on the 52/952 is pretty silly. I'm not even sure that a grip safety is needed. These are target guns, correct? Why would either be needed, let alone both?
About the only idea I ever had about the 952 grip safety/firing pin lock was that the pistol was a newly introduced catalog item meant for nationwide retail sale.
That would make it different than PPC-9 which was not catalogued, or the other “Limited” guns which were all distributor exclusives.
So my only thought was that in some way, they were attempting to make them “50 state legal.”
I have no idea if that was the thinking, but it was the only idea that I came up with.
That would make it different than PPC-9 which was not catalogued, or the other “Limited” guns which were all distributor exclusives.
So my only thought was that in some way, they were attempting to make them “50 state legal.”
I have no idea if that was the thinking, but it was the only idea that I came up with.
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