cast lead for defense

I hand load 38 special/ .357 mag. Most of my cast lead bullets come from a 140 grain SWC lee mold using wheel weights. Are there any thoughts on this load for defensive carry. I keep my 38 special loads at about 850-900 fps. I have never tried an expansion test on the bullet in any type of media. Just food for thought.

Sounds good to me. My main concern would be making sure it didn't overpenetrate, which I doubt it would at those velocities.

You're no doubt aware of all the threads and the various concerns about carrying handloads for defensive purposes. That said, I've got a .38 Special on right now, filled with handloads that I made up with Tennessee Valley Bullets hardcast 158-gr LSWCs.

A box of 38 special SD factory ammo costs $20. If you ever did have to shoot in self defense, how much would a long criminal trial cost, or a failed defense argument?

Really guy, except in a hard core emergency (like totally ammunition dryup or major breakdown of society) you don't want to use hand loads for defense. Most jury members are not shooters, most shooters are not hand loaders. It would not take much for a slick lawyer or warped DA to make you out as a psycho just itching to try out some of his home brew on some innocent person. Also, factory ammo has know, scientifically demonstrable powder patterns, if push comes to shove you can PROVE how far away you were when you shot. Your hand loads don't do that. Please see the comment Massad Ayoob has made else where along this line. He testifies in court at such things and has SEEN people hung out to dry on this issue. 25 years ago nobody would have cared, now they do. BAD IDEA.

I know and trust my hand loads,and know where they hit...

98% of what I shoot, .22LR & 9mm excepted, is my reloaded ammunition usually lead. Except around the woods here I carry factory ammunition and it is in the house defense guns, I shoot enough of it to know where it prints.
I am persuaded that there are enough negatives to using reloads for defense to avoid it.
If I ever have to shoot in self-defense I do not want to leave anything for the lawyers to quibble about.

Check with the Israelis. ;-)

I would like to start shooting some lead in my Sigma. The barrel is,,, match grade. With a good slugging and some hand detail work. IMO should be displayed in a museum of modern industrial art. It's a clean tube!

I would be interested in some 9mm wad cutters if any body knows somebody that would let me try a few slugs. there is nothing like a well loaded lead round and they make a great splat!

As for reloaders and HD/SD... Thats BS,, and if you live in a area that screws you over concerning it. You are not doing your job as a citizen much less a American. Short of rat poison loads <<< which I like and build, Talons or stealth steel core cutters It's all pretty much BS!

You confront me or mine,,, suffer the wrath of evil!!!!!! By this hand,,, and it is not playing!

It takes a beating and keeps on ticking. And my wife loves to hold the beat up working mans mit. it will never fail her or our children and grandchildren.

It amuses me to read these threads which predict dire consequences if handloads are used for self defense. For self defense!

Before you pull the trigger, you had better be on very firm ground that you were justified in doing so. If that is the case, no argument over factory load versus handload is going to change that position. If you were justified, you were justified---period. The fact that a handload was in the gun is immaterial. What were you supposed to do, call a time out so you could swap ammo?

The problem is that you have to prove you WERE justified. If the case goes to trial the prosecution can try to show that you were a gun nut out looking for trouble, with handmade ammo in your gun because the stuff the store sells wasn't deadly enough for you.

I have yet to see where anyone has cited a specific instance where a prosecutor has used the "hand-loaded death-ray bullets" argument, and much less where it has been used successfully.

Sure, they could use it, but they could subpoena your computer to find if you have been visiting subversive, militant, gunfighter sites like the S&W forum.

Anyhow, my counter-argument would be that I wasn't using evil, factory manufactured expanding, exploding cop-killer bullets, I had my gun loaded with mild wadcutter ammo, just like the target shooters use.

I prefer my reloads for potential SD loads I can not afford regular practice with factory loads. For the S&W 36 I like 3.4gr of Bullseye with a Speer 148gr BBWC and F-100 primers, or 4.2gr of W-231 with a 158gr cast LSWC again with F-100s
http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16532&stc=1&d=1269662480
I'm running low on the Speer BBWCs does anyone know where to find them ?

Dragon88 said:

The problem is that you have to prove you WERE justified. If the case goes to trial the prosecution can try to show that you were a gun nut out looking for trouble, with handmade ammo in your gun because the stuff the store sells wasn't deadly enough for you.

Click to expand...

You don't believe that do you?

A Co-worker of mine was road raged on with his baby girl in the car a while back. At a traffic light the rager and his adult son approached his car. He did have his window down against a red light in traffic. He has his CC and had a High Point 9mm under the seat. When the rager went to grab at him. He stabbed him one time. He did not wish to hurt his daughter ears with a shot. He was arrested and treated like a perp. by our wonderful cops and the DA. The Judge was the only person that had a brain. His case was dismissed this week. And he promptly filed a civy suite against the arresting cops/dept. The attacker and the worthless DA. He did nothing wrong! And this is in Oklahoma. He was well within his rights. Its a sad day when you have to spend money to make the law dogs do there job right. In a make my day state ran by democrats. I would have shot the perp even if i was concealed against the law. There is a clause in our law. You have the right to defend yourself that supersede the law when attacked. Figure that one out.

Folks in America need to stand up!!! And in a nut shell the NRA aint getting it done! Paying somebody to do your dirty work is a wussy's way out and only feeds the corrupt system. And yes I'm guilty of this as a NRA member now. it's not about right or wrong. When folks do not stand up. It's money.....

It seems pretty obvious there are a lot of people who are completely unaware of Texas law. We don't have to have a lot of justification for shooting someone and no one cares if it was a handload or a .50 BMG. If the shooting is justified, the grand jury will no bill it and the load is a non-issue.

I get tired of hearing it...

everybody talks of not handloading for carry. Then they talk about "slick talking lawyers" but never post a case where someone was actually convicted because they defended themselves with handloads.If a case like that was out there it would constantly be brought up. The idea of concealed carry is to always be ready but not pull the gun unless you are ready to kill the object in front of the muzzle. I am going to stop now because this is not what this thread is about.

I would not choose a swc for defense work. Their advantages are they are accurate at bulleye ranges and cut clean holes in targets. On game that means they will break bone and go through leaving a hole the about the same size exiting letting the game blead out if you don't hit a vital organ. This can take hours. Not so good if you want your attacker to die as soon as you shoot them.

Factory self defense ammo is loaded with hollow points for a reason. They will work. Hollow point cause trauma and shock. When a bullet hits and expands to 1.5 times its diameter tumbles all around and stays together all in the first 10 inches it makes for a devistating hit. If you look at hunting ammo for stuff like deer and antilope it is made with hollow points or ballistic tips because it is the same idea. Solids are used for elephant and cape buffalo because they need to go through a foot of rock hard muscle and bone before they hit anything that can cause the animal to die. Same thing as solid lead swc on a human, a little hole in and a little hole out. It will die eventually. Probably after it gets done attacking you.

A swc would be great if you plan to be accurate enough in a life or death situation to shoot a moving target between the eyes. It will go right through shock the brain and stop the fight. In a high stress situation I doubt you will stay calm enough to do that.

If you decide to cast your own hollow points do a little testing on your ammo. Hard cast will break up and a small amount will go through an intended target. Soft will make a nice mushroom and cause the most shock. But test for pentration and expansion and find what works for you. You can make a ton of them, load them up, get confidence using them and know that if the time ever comes you can trust your ammo.

Most people can't afford to shoot defense ammo that cost $30.00 for 25 rounds to pratice with and carry. So they find a load that works and then practice with white box knowing that 5 years ago their factory defense ammo worked. You will be ahead of the game practicing with a handload you shoot and carry all the time. Practice and confidence are crutial when the worst happens.

I have never had to shoot another person but I know from hunting and shooting wild animals that shot placement is key. Shoot something in the head and it will die instantly. It is tough to do sometimes. Shoot something in the vitals and it will die and not mess up your trophy head. It may run, it may fall instantly, you don't know till it happens, but in the end it will die. But if you put a lousy shot into the stomach,legs(or arms in a human), shoulder, hip, or butt and you have made a lot more work for yourself.

Attackers don't know a bad shot was suppose to stop them.

Find a good load and practice.

Man five posts from when I started to when I finished that long winded thing

I have no problum with lead for carry, i get to shoot alot my of my handloads than i do with factory loads and as stated earlyer i know how they shoot in my gun, i trust them and thats worth alot to me!

Paul5388 said:

It seems pretty obvious there are a lot of people who are completely unaware of Texas law. We don't have to have a lot of justification for shooting someone and no one cares if it was a handload or a .50 BMG. If the shooting is justified, the grand jury will no bill it and the load is a non-issue.

Click to expand...

There are some states full of wussy's. Many do not roll like Tx, Ok, Ar, Miss, La, and others.

You try to steal my car from my driveway I will shoot you if I get the chance! I got a ticket for discharging a firearm in city limits. And it was dropped soon as the Judge saw the case. Not to mention it was on police records that the car had been a target for theft from the day I bought it and brought it home. Stupid cops did not even lift finger prints off the windows that were fresh and bust the perp. NO they told me you have insurance. I have never had a cop do there job when something was stolen or mine was threaten. But you threaten them and all heck breaks loose.

I once stuck a DBL 12ga through a dudes mouth on my neighbors front porch. Was known to be a local thug. Jacked his grill up. Lifted him off his feet and threw him in the front yard busting out his pallet with the barrels. He had a wheel gun in his jacket pocket but would not take his hands out of his pocket. Little did he know I had the SG around the corner of a wall behind me. He took his hands out when he ate a 12ga. Cops treated me like a crimm. Knowing he was a known felon. That issue died the next day when they found his trench coat with a zip 38 in the pocket.

I'm happy to say the new Police chief and Sheriff in the last few years have pulled there heads out and the DA has wised up in my county.

Come on down to the heart land and practice you perp trade. Things are changing real fast.

Don't believe it when you're told a head shot will bring anything down. I shot a possum the other day right in the head and had to finish it off with a shot through the boiler room.

The same goes for HPs at normal handgun velocities. I shot a coon out of a tree with a 9mm carbine using 124 gr JHPs and had to finish it off with another shot. Everything I've shot with 9mms has failed to expand, even Golden Sabers.

Now a .357 with 125 JHPs at 1500-1600 fps is another story.

No one ever wants to blame those easy to load hard as a rock jacketed pistol bullets. Just increase the speed and they will expand is the common stated fact. Nobody wants to believe that a soft cast hollow point might be a good idea. Common defense rounds are made to police standards. Shooting though doors, glass,cars,and still being able to penitrate winter clothing.

I personally am not looking for a fight or a shootout. Chances are if I have to shoot though something to hit my attacker they are fortified and I could probably just run away . The statistics say that a fortified attacker is well armed. That means they will not pursue me if I run away and I let the SWAT or Whoever fight them. Call me a coward if you want. But I am a well armed coward that will live to fight another day. I am serious when I say I will only draw my gun if I have to eliminate a threat.

My family plan is set up so that everyone knows that we aren't heros. Call the the law and hunker down and play defense. They can steal what they want but if they come through the wrong door lead poisoning will be fast and instant.