Adjusting load for fixed sights

I own an unusual handgun; a Model 1883 German Reichsrevolver. It is chambered for the 10.6mm Service Ordnance caliber, which is nearly identical, and completely interchangeable, with the .44 Russian.

The original 10.6mm Service Ordnance fired a 262 grain lead bullet at 700 fps with black powder. The .44 Russian load is a 246 grain lead bullet at about 750 fps with black powder. My load for the gun is a 205 grain cast lead bullet at 690 fps with a 3.5 grain charge of Bullseye (no, it is perfectly safe, and easy on the gun). The problem I have is that my loads shoot about 6" high at 25 yards. Does anyone know if there is a way to lower the point of impact to it shoots closer to point of aim? There is no way I am going to file on the sights or modify the gun in any way.

Here is a picture of my revolver, and another of 44 Russian, 44 Special, and 44 Magnum next to each other for reference.

Thanks.

Generally, on a handgun, you increase velocity to lower point of impact.

Some of the old military revolvers had sights regulated for crazy long ranges. Have you shot yours with original service loadings?

More powder. Handguns, at least in my experience, shoot lower as velocity increases. This is backwards from rifles, that tend to shoot higher as velocity increases.

Any attempts to lower the point of impact by increasing the velocity of that bullet means increasing the powder charge and the chamber pressure. What this means is that your previous stated "perfectly safe" load of 3.5 grains Bullseye will be increased to possibly (PROBABLY) unsafe levels. Please remember that these revolvers were made for black powder loads only, and gun steel was only modestly strong enough for black powder pressures.

It might be a good idea to switch to black powder loads, or use black epoxy to temporarily build up the front sight for zeroing with your loads. Such a modification is not permanent and certainly would not put your gun at risk with higher power loads.

Or try lighter bullets..

Heavier/slower = higher
Lighter/faster = lower

The tried-and-true method is called "Kentucky windage."

Correctly applied, you align the sights and aim to a point which will put your shots on target, equal and opposite to the difference between point of aim and point of impact. It is a mistake to deliberately misalign the sights - it is neither consistent nor accurate.

There are too many variations in grip, environment and ability of the shooter, to hope that the "right" load is going to fix things. Load and practice for consistency, and accuracy will follow in due course.

Aim 6" low?




The traditional way without altering the gun, as stated, is to lower bullet weight or increase velocity. You are already at a light bullet weight and increasing velocity by increasing the charge may not be a viable safe option.

I don't know if another powder that will give you equivalent pressures and will be safe, but if I may recommend a couple that could possibly do it better than Bullseye, I would suggest Trail Boss or possibly 5744. I have heard of the latter being used in reduced loads for revolver cartridges, specifically the 44 Russian, to duplicate BP loads. You may want to talk to their ballistician directly if you can't find reliable load data for it. They are pretty helpful.

IMHO, either of those powders seem a safer option in your old revolver than Bullseye. One double charge and it's done. Both TB and 5744 are fairly forgiving as long as you don't compress them.

Edit: For safety purposes, I have linked a discussion that may be of some interest to you here Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com • View topic - Pressure Spike in Smokeless Powders . I am also reminded that 4759 powder is not a bad substitute for BP loads either. I am a big fan of Sherman Bell's discussions of its use in sound quality but old Damascus barrel shotguns that he produced a series of articles for in Double Gun Journal. I found the discussion of TB to be most interesting, btw.

Yep, lighter bullets or more velocity. I myself go with the Kentucky Windage to get them where I want. The good side of Kentucky windage is if someone gets your gun and shoots at you they'll miss. I know this never ever happened with dualing guns, yeah right.

m1gunner said:

...Some of the old military revolvers had sights regulated for crazy long ranges. Have you shot yours with original service loadings?

Click to expand...

No, I have never even seen an original cartridge in this caliber. I would imagine they would be fairly expensive.

gregintenn said:

More powder. Handguns, at least in my experience, shoot lower as velocity increases. This is backwards from rifles, that tend to shoot higher as velocity increases.

Click to expand...

More power is not an option for me in this old revolver.

john traveler said:

Any attempts to lower the point of impact by increasing the velocity of that bullet means increasing the powder charge and the chamber pressure. What this means is that your previous stated "perfectly safe" load of 3.5 grains Bullseye will be increased to possibly (PROBABLY) unsafe levels. Please remember that these revolvers were made for black powder loads only, and gun steel was only modestly strong enough for black powder pressures.

It might be a good idea to switch to black powder loads, or use black epoxy to temporarily build up the front sight for zeroing with your loads. Such a modification is not permanent and certainly would not put your gun at risk with higher power loads.

Click to expand...

I have been reluctant to use black powder because of the mess, but it might be worth a try.

I hadn't thought of using some black epoxy to non-permanently raise the height of the front sight. That's a great idea.

krehmkej said:

Or try lighter bullets..

Heavier/slower = higher
Lighter/faster = lower

Click to expand...

I can't find a 44 caliber mold less than 200 grains.

VAdoublegunner said:

...I don't know if another powder that will give you equivalent pressures and will be safe, but if I may recommend a couple that could possibly do it better than Bullseye, I would suggest Trail Boss or possibly 5744. I have heard of the latter being used in reduced loads for revolver cartridges, specifically the 44 Russian, to duplicate BP loads. You may want to talk to their ballistician directly if you can't find reliable load data for it. They are pretty helpful.

IMHO, either of those powders seem a safer option in your old revolver than Bullseye. One double charge and it's done. Both TB and 5744 are fairly forgiving as long as you don't compress them.

Edit: For safety purposes, I have linked a discussion that may be of some interest to you here Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com • View topic - Pressure Spike in Smokeless Powders . I am also reminded that 4759 powder is not a bad substitute for BP loads either. I am a big fan of Sherman Bell's discussions of its use in sound quality but old Damascus barrel shotguns that he produced a series of articles for in Double Gun Journal. I found the discussion of TB to be most interesting, btw.

Click to expand...

Thanks VAdoublegunner for the links and info, and thank you to everyone else for your input.

I have found that JB Weld (a metal epoxy) has worked the best for building up the front sight. It is dark gray when cured. I will use masking tape to form a mold around the existing sight. Then remove the tape and gradually file the sight at the range.