.44 Mag and plated bullets...crimp question

I just picked up a box of Berry's bullets (240 grain) and will be using them in .44 Mag cases with Titegroup with the aim of making some really light target loads. Light recoiling, enjoyable target loads. I've never messed with plated bullets and have heard that you need to be light on your crimps. My dies (Redding) have a seater / crimp die. To be truthful I've always wanted to get a separate crimp die and was thinking...with these plated bullets...would a taper crimp die work well? I think a separate crimp die would be nice so after the bullet is seated, I could apply a little bit of crimp at a time without worrying about it's effect on seating depth? Am I on the right track here? How many of you shoot plated bullets and have switched to a taper crimp die to handle them?

I shoot plated bullets in large quantity, and there is no need to make drastic changes to the loading equipment or techniques. Roll crimp works fine on revolver, just don't crimp enough to break or seriously distort the plating. Taper crimp works fine if you have that.

I have separate seat and crimp on the Dillons, but the combo die on the Lee works OK too. Bottom line is don't crimp on plated like you were expecting the crimp to hold the bullet from moving, just bring the case mouth down to touch. If the plated bullet has a cannelure, use that; many don't.

4 die set

I definitely like having a separate crimp die & agree it would be a good addition. Unless you'll be loading something else that has to have a taper crimp I'd suggest you just get a roll crimp die. It's no problem to adjust it to work with a non-cannelure bullet. Not much call for taper crimps in 44s.

Hope you have better luck with your 44 Berrys' than I did.

What sort of trouble did you run into with .44 cal Berry's?

I've loaded with a lot of Rainier, Berry's, and Extreme plated bullets and can tell you their plating is a LOT tougher than most are aware of. Now, please read the following carefully, because I have seen so many replies by people reading what they expected rather that actually reading what I posted.

Anytime I load a new to me bullet or use a new to me setup I assemble some dummy rounds and pull the bullet to check for issues. Using a combined combined Seat/Crimp setup in 38 special and 45 ACP with a plated bullet I have had no issues with damaged plating when checked using a 20X magnifier. However, with Speer Gold Dots and Hornady XTP bullets I've seen a raised ring of jacketing pushed up in front of the casing and that ring is sharp enough on the pulled bullets you could cut yourself on it.

Now, read that again carefully. Plated bullets crimped with a completely normal crimp (both roll and taper) using a combined Seat/Crimp had no visible damage to the plating under 20X magnification. Expensive Hunting or SD Jacketed bullets had a large ring of jacketing pushed up using a combined Seat/Crimp setup. This is the opposite of what most seem to expect and I am fairly certain someone will post that "plated bullets need special handling" or something to that effect.

Fact is that plated bullets from any of the major brands do not need any special handling in regards to crimping whatsoever. About the only suggested limitation is that the velocity be kept below 1200 fps for the standard plate and 1500 fps for the heavy plate bullets. Note, Berry's and Extreme now both offer Heavy Plate bullets in some weights and calibers and I've found Extreme's 165 gn. heavy plate HP's work very very well in a 1150 fps load I use as a practice equivalent for my carry load, a 1150 fps Gold Dot.

Addendum. Someone will inevitably post what is recommended on the bullets suppliers web site and I will note that most recommend a light crimp. However, I am reporting REAL WORLD RESULTS here, not what my corporate lawyer told me I should post. The simple fact is that the plated bullets from a good brand are very tough and can be treated rather harshly. Anyone who want to double check this is free to load up a dummy round and pull the bullet and look at it. If you take the time to do that you will be surprised to find that you can use enough crimp to cause the case to buckle and won't see any visible damage.

Second addendum. Cases buckling in the revolver caliber is probably the biggest issue I've seen with a combined Seat/Crimp operation. I now separate the seating and crimping with all of my 357 Magnum loads due to problems with buckled cases. So, pay attention to that potential problem and plan for it if you find it's a problem. Because a badly buckled case will NOT fit in a revolver cylinder no matter how hard you push.

Been using plated bullets in 44, loaded on a Dillon SDB for several years. This uses a separate seat and crimp die, don't know if it's a roll or taper, but I've had no issues with light loads. Accuracy has been excellent and guns are SOOO much easier to clean.

scooter123 said:

Addendum. Someone will inevitably post what is recommended on the bullets suppliers web site and I will note that most recommend a light crimp. However, I am reporting REAL WORLD RESULTS here, not what my corporate lawyer told me I should post. The simple fact is that the plated bullets from a good brand are very tough and can be treated rather harshly. Anyone who want to double check this is free to load up a dummy round and pull the bullet and look at it. If you take the time to do that you will be surprised to find that you can use enough crimp to cause the case to buckle and won't see any visible damage.

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Call me old fashioned or cautious, but my real world experience tells me, that directions and suggestions by the manufacturer are more reliable and can be trusted to hold true, more than the Gospel according to random internet posters. I doubt very much if the suggestion of a light crimp by any of the plated bullet manufacturers comes from the legal department because of any liability, but probably from the R&D department because of performance issues. While the plating can be tough to cut with a crimp on many plated bullets, the lead core on all is a very soft swagged lead and can be sized or misshapen by a heavy crimp that does not cut the plating. This may not just reduce bullet performance, but can lead to reduced neck tension and defeat the whole purpose of applying a firm crimp in the first place. Thus altho no obvious visible damage to the copper plating can be seen, performance itself still suffers. When used to levels of velocity and pressure they are designed for, most plated bullets do not need and more than a light crimp to remove the flare as neck tension itself is enough to hold the bullet from setback or jump. While the plating may be tough enough to take a heavy crimp....the heavy crimp is not needed and can be counterproductive.

From the day we start to reload, we are told to read our manuals and follow them. As we gain experience we learn what applies to us and what may not. Anytime we deviate from published manuals we know we are on our own and may be exposing ourselves and our firearms to risk. While an experienced reloader with thousands of plated bullets under their belt knows what works well for them, IMHO, telling someone new to plated bullets to ignore the manufacturers recommendations and cautions is just plain foolish and irresponsible.

In answer to the OP's questions.....yes, a taper crimp will work as well as a light roll crimp. Seating and crimping works well in all applications, not just with plated bullets. I've found that keeping flare to a minimum is more important than crimp, even with plated bullets with a cannelure.

Berry's

MJFlores said:

What sort of trouble did you run into with .44 cal Berry's?

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http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/337998-berrys-plated-bullets-quality.html

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I use a Redding Pro crimp on bullets with a cannelure including the X-Treme plated.
I use a Redding taper crimp on the smooth bullets like Berrys and Rainiers.
You need just enough to keep the bullets from moving under recoil.
The sizing of the case should provide all the bullet pull you need.
Less crimp makes the case mouth last longer.

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Nemo

I use the same crimp on my plinkers as I do my magnums without a hitch . I load Rainers 240 gr.HP in magnum , mid range and lite plinkers with excellent accuracy . I load my lightest load with 4.5 grs. of titegroup behind Rainier's 240 hp .

I have had no issues with the 44 mag/special Lee carbide factory crimp die on my 4 hole turret. Shoot plated bullets (Rainier and Berry's PFP & PRS) almost exclusively for plinking and target practice. I set the adjusting knob at about 1/2 turn.