I have been able to buy quite a bit of older powders lately...and need some data for some of it. When I moved quite a few years ago I got rid of all extraneous paper work so no longer have my old stuff. Need help with mostly Winchester powders. I got 5 lbs Win 230P as well as 4 lbs of 630 6 lbs of 680 and 12 lbs of WAA 12S I think it is called..all for a buck a pound. Had to pay a bit more for the Unique and Herco but still pretty cheap.So if anyone has some old data for the Older Winchester powders or can direct me to some..I would certainly appreciate it.
Need some help with Loading data.
- Thread starter Skeet 028
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Bruce51
Member
I have most of the old data.
Just need to know what calibers you want to load.
PM an email address for data scans.
BLM
WAA12 indicates a one piece wad not a powder. Data is limited for the other powders unless you are loading shotgun shells.
Just need to know what calibers you want to load.
PM an email address for data scans.
BLM
WAA12 indicates a one piece wad not a powder. Data is limited for the other powders unless you are loading shotgun shells.
Last edited:
Google is your friend
Do a Google Search for " POWDER BURN RATE " . There is a chart available that has ~200 powders listed. Find the powders you have and then find the closest powder listed in your data.
For instance, you have powder #27 on the chart. Powder #23 is listed in your load data. You would be safe using starting to mid-range load data for powder #23 with powder #27 that you have.
I loaded 10# of Winchester 452AA for 4 years before Winchester came out with load data because so many Bullseye shooters were using it.
Stick to close powder numbers, and starting to mid-range charges and you will be safe. Load 10 rounds as a test before loading 1,000 rounds as your new regular load.
Do a Google Search for " POWDER BURN RATE " . There is a chart available that has ~200 powders listed. Find the powders you have and then find the closest powder listed in your data.
For instance, you have powder #27 on the chart. Powder #23 is listed in your load data. You would be safe using starting to mid-range load data for powder #23 with powder #27 that you have.
I loaded 10# of Winchester 452AA for 4 years before Winchester came out with load data because so many Bullseye shooters were using it.
Stick to close powder numbers, and starting to mid-range charges and you will be safe. Load 10 rounds as a test before loading 1,000 rounds as your new regular load.
Titegroup anybody?
During the shortage I picked up a couple pounds of Titegroup. I hear a lot of negatives about how 'touchy' it is. Can you folks elaborate? Does anybody like it?? Can it drop charges from a measure ok, or does it need to be weighed? It doesn't seem right that Hodgdon (The Gun Powder People) puts out a powder that is so contrary.
During the shortage I picked up a couple pounds of Titegroup. I hear a lot of negatives about how 'touchy' it is. Can you folks elaborate? Does anybody like it?? Can it drop charges from a measure ok, or does it need to be weighed? It doesn't seem right that Hodgdon (The Gun Powder People) puts out a powder that is so contrary.
David R
Member
I have some of that info in old lyman and speer manuals. What are you looking to load?
David
David
FishingPilot
US Veteran
I started using TG a few years ago out of necessity because it was the only pistol powder available in my area. I don't think I will go back to anything else. There's plenty of load data available for it. I use it for 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 acp, 38 special and 357 mag. It meters fine in my Lee powder dispensers. Accuracy is good. Burns well. A little goes a long way.
It isn't really. It is my #2 powder in amount used. It is very popular in IDPA and USPSA.
1. It only takes a little Titegroup for a moderate charge, so in a .38, there is plenty of room for a double charge.
2. It works best middle of its range on up, so is excellent for high pressure loads in 9mm (minor) and .40 S&W (major). It is better near its top end than HP38, which is my .38 powder.
3. It is stable with regard to temp and relatively insensitive to position. Very reliable.
4. Forget "start low and work up." Not my favorite for bottom of the chart loads. Use the chart and pick the (not max) power level you want. If you're not sure, start in the middle.
5. It measures very consistently from my Dillon measure. DO recalibrate with a scale if changing powder lots.
Last edited:
gwpercle
Member
This is the reason I buy/keep older manuals. A source for data on the older powders. You never know what your going to find. I was looking in the top of a closet and found the 4 pounds of Unique I had squirreled away and a pound of Alcan-5...found load data in Speer #8 manual circa 1970. Being a pack-rat pays off sometimes.
The price for 1 lb. of Alcan #5 was $4.00!
Gary
The price for 1 lb. of Alcan #5 was $4.00!
Gary
Bkreutz
US Veteran
Most of my friends who like using Titegroup are shooting major power factor. I got some a while back (when I couldn't find W231/HP38, or Autocomp/CFE Pistol), before I got a chance to use it, my preferred powder became available. I decided to give it a try, and it worked "OK" for me, but seemed a bit "snappy" at minor PF. I've since gone back to my preferred powder and have traded away all but 2# of my Titegroup for powder that I prefer. Actually I have a guy that want's to trade for my last 2# but we haven't been able to be at the same match for the past couple of months. In the past 2 weeks I've scored 10# of Autocomp and 10# of CFE Pistol so having Titegroup as a backup has become moot. I see nothing wrong with using it. I think a lot of people don't like it because the amount of powder required is considerably less than other powders, but if you're careful (like one should be with any powder) in your powder drop practices it is a non-issue. Another plus is that it's not as "position sensitive" as some of the older powders were.
Ah yes..Alcan powders..Have AL-120 AL-5 and AL-8 on hand..and actually have some load data for it. On the powders I have just gotten. I would guess the 230 is akin to 231 and would like to use it in the 45 auto if possible as I load a lot of that cal..and have waaayyy more brass than I need. I think the 680 was used in rounds like the 22 Hornet and 218 Bee. I have a recollection of loading it in the 218 Mashburn Bee I had.. The 630 I don't know what I can use it in..but thought it was a kinda middle range powder. I am originally from Md and was mainly a shotgun loader so never used the 630 to my recollection. If the AA12 can be used in 12 ga shotgun I can load it al up as I have many many 12 ga cases. I didn't use it in the past as Hercules was the predominant powders in use for all my shotgun loads. That is why I was happy to get the 13 lbs of Unique as I load it in 20 and 28 ga. also in 44 sp and 45 Colt with lead bullets. I also got 8 older cans of IMR powders..standard 4320 4895 4064 4350 stuff..all for 25 bucks..but I KNOW what to do with it. When I moved here I just had too much in the line of books etc so I gave 'em to a friend back there.. Maybe he still has some of this stuff. Also gave him 2500 lbs of lead.. BTW..the price on this IMR powders was 2.75 per pound..really cheap at todays prices..but we didn't make as much back then ya know... Thanks for the help..
Bruce51
Member
.45 data
This data is from a 1975 Winchester complimentary copy 2nd edition.
The forum changed the original format from the book. You are correct on 680 being used in the hornet.
Also used in the 25/20 and 30/30 with 110 grain bullets. The 680 can be used in .30 carbine, 25/20 and any other caliber you can find data listed.
Please verify the powder you have listed as WAA12. That's a wad. Winchester powders are three numbers or three numbers plus AA.
Example 452AA, 473AA, 540, 630, etc.
Bullet Weight & Type Powder Grains F.P.S. C.U.P.
.45 ACP
185 grains W.C. 230. 4.0 770 12,500
185 grains W.C. 230. 5.3 910 16,500
185 grains W.C. 231 5.1 765 11,500
185grains W.C. 231 6.1 920 16,500
185grains W.C. 630 10.0 765 12,000
185 grains W.C. 630 11.5 920 15,000
210 grains L.W.C. 230. 3.0 700 10,000
210 grains L.W.C. 230. 5.1 920 16,500 ~
210 grains L.W.C. 231 4.8 795 12,000
210 grains L.W.C. 231 5.7 930 17,000
210 grains L.W.C. 630 9.8 800 12,000
210 grains L.W.C. 630 11.5 950 16,000 .
230 grains F.M.C. 230. 4.9 805 16,500
230 grains F.M.C. 231 5.6 795 17,000
230 grains F.M.C. 630 10.9 840 17,000
Need more data?
BLM
This data is from a 1975 Winchester complimentary copy 2nd edition.
The forum changed the original format from the book. You are correct on 680 being used in the hornet.
Also used in the 25/20 and 30/30 with 110 grain bullets. The 680 can be used in .30 carbine, 25/20 and any other caliber you can find data listed.
Please verify the powder you have listed as WAA12. That's a wad. Winchester powders are three numbers or three numbers plus AA.
Example 452AA, 473AA, 540, 630, etc.
Bullet Weight & Type Powder Grains F.P.S. C.U.P.
.45 ACP
185 grains W.C. 230. 4.0 770 12,500
185 grains W.C. 230. 5.3 910 16,500
185 grains W.C. 231 5.1 765 11,500
185grains W.C. 231 6.1 920 16,500
185grains W.C. 630 10.0 765 12,000
185 grains W.C. 630 11.5 920 15,000
210 grains L.W.C. 230. 3.0 700 10,000
210 grains L.W.C. 230. 5.1 920 16,500 ~
210 grains L.W.C. 231 4.8 795 12,000
210 grains L.W.C. 231 5.7 930 17,000
210 grains L.W.C. 630 9.8 800 12,000
210 grains L.W.C. 630 11.5 950 16,000 .
230 grains F.M.C. 230. 4.9 805 16,500
230 grains F.M.C. 231 5.6 795 17,000
230 grains F.M.C. 630 10.9 840 17,000
Need more data?
BLM
Last edited:
Nemo288
Member
Win 680 is useful in the 1.6" supermag revolver rounds
(357 max, 445, 460, 500 S&W etc).
It loads similar to 1680. It behaves like a slower 296.
That powder has not been made for decades.
Hornady #8 is one of the last manuals to have data for it.
===
Nemo
(357 max, 445, 460, 500 S&W etc).
It loads similar to 1680. It behaves like a slower 296.
That powder has not been made for decades.
Hornady #8 is one of the last manuals to have data for it.
===
Nemo
Wow. Bruce Lee M.....that is a tremendous help. I was out there looking at a lot of the powder. I also have some Winchester 295. I assume it is a lot like the original lot of WC820. I used some of that surplus powder that I got from Jeff Bartlett a long time ago.. Used it in the 410. It is not like 296 in shape or form in my opinion. It is an actual very small ball powder. Really messed up my Old P-W 800 410 loader. As far as the shotgun powder...It is AA12S..I know it sounds like the wads but that is the number. Wads were WAA12 and WAA12R back then Then a good bit later they came out with the 12 ga 1 ounce wad. . I literally sold millions of them..heck used 1/2 that many myself. It does not look like 452(or Hodgdon Trap 100) at all other than being kinda gray in color.. I just never used their powders prior to 452 and 473. In all this powder I bought I even got some Dupont P 5066. I used some of that stuff in shotguns way back in the early 60s..maybe late 50s. Just can't remember back that far..Oldtimers ya know
Bruce51
Member
You're very welcome. I also need to thank you for teaching me something new.
In the very back of Speer #8 they list the old AA powder numbers.
Of course the first one is AA12S followed by AA20S.
The only data is for shotgun loads but at least I now know that the powder identification numbers changed sometime between 1970-1975.
It's always good to learn something new.
If you need more data list specific calibers. The data does not change much, but some powders drop off of the list.
BLM
In the very back of Speer #8 they list the old AA powder numbers.
Of course the first one is AA12S followed by AA20S.
The only data is for shotgun loads but at least I now know that the powder identification numbers changed sometime between 1970-1975.
It's always good to learn something new.
If you need more data list specific calibers. The data does not change much, but some powders drop off of the list.
BLM
bananaman
Member
I liked the way it performed. The drawback for me, was the flakes were so small that some (small amt.) would leak out from my Lee Powder disk when dispensing. Using a Lee classic turret press. Bob
well loaded some of that 230. shot just fine. Found some data for the 295 and tried it out at starting loads. Went bang and actually shot pretty well. In the 44 mag anyway. about as well as I can shoot that darn gun. Going to try the 680 in something. Oh btw that ol powder goes through the dillon powder measures like water. very consistent. I just found an 8lb of 231 for 80 bucks..going to use up all that old powder first though
There is a good article on Titegroup in my latest, #292, issue of
Handloader magazine.
Handloader magazine.
Also picked up 10 lbs of 295 powder. not quite like 296. Looks suspiciously like WC820...or what we used to call Magic when we used it in the 410. It was also a buck a pound. For some reason I have found a lot of older powder lately..10 pounds of old HS 10 with data...but I did have to pay 5 bucks a pound
ChiefStealth
US Veteran
I've been using TG in .45 ACP since late July. The only thing "touchy" about it is the rather narrow range of usable load weights it has. The load data I have, for 230gn bullets, has a starting load of 4.4gn, and a max load of 4.8gn. A rather narrow range between min. and max. This has not been a problem, for me. I've tested every weight in the range, and have not seen any evidence of excessive pressure. Accuracy wise, my pistol seems to like the lower end of the range. At 4.7 & 4.8 the shot groups spread out some. I'm told that this is common with the faster burning powders. At 4.4 I have had a few rounds that did not operate the pistol's slide completely. I have settled on 4.5gn. Works fine. Accuracy good.
The powder meters very well in my Lee Perfect Powder Measure. Very consistent. Throws come out within 1/2 of a tenth, every time. As another wrote, the fine kernels do tend to leak a bit from the side of the measure. Not a problem. I put a white piece of paper under the measure, collect the small amount of leaked powder, and funnel it back into the jug. I rarely have more than one grain worth of leakage after charging 100 rounds.
Overall, I like the powder for .45 ACP. Works well within that small weight range. Very economical. Burns completely. Powder residue is not excessive. Cleans up pretty easy. Somewhat softer recoil than some other slower burning powders I've used such as Unique, and HS-6.
