Hand Loading for 44 Russian

sw44russ

sw44russ

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I'm considering getting into shooting these old Guns instead of just collecting as I have been.

Just looking for some info on 44 Russian as far as Loading goes and if 44-40 tools will work with it...
 
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44-40 dies will not work for 44 Russian. Before 44 Russian dies were available here, I got a 44 Special die set and it worked fine, except for crimping. In order for the crimping die to work, I had to cut off about 1/4 inch if the die body with an abrasive wheel. The cut does not need to be exact, or even perfectly square.

That was about 20 years ago, and I still use it.

44 Russian needs a .430 bullet (or so). The 44-40 bullet you are using will probably not provide acceptable results.

44 Russian brass is available from Midway in the USA. I don't know if that is an option for you.
 
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The main problem in using .44 Spl (or Mag) dies for .44 R would be seating and crimping. I've never attempted shortening a steel seating/crimping die body, but I imagine it could be done with a Dremel tool, some abrasive cutoff discs, and patience. I have somewhere a .44 Mag neck expander die with an aluminum body. That would be a snap to shorten if necessary.
 
You won't have to shorten that .44 Mag expander if you can turn the exp. screw down far enough to reach the case mouth. The seat/crimp die body, however, will have to be shortened and the die screwed further into the press to work. I shoot several different .44 Specials, so for my Uberti 3rd Model Russian, I bought a used seat/crimp die and shortened it. The RCBS .44 Spl. expander screw will come down far enough that the die body requires no modification. Have fun !

Larry
 
Using soft lead over BP, you may or may not get leading and poor accuracy with a .427 bullet. Just have to try it. Handguns tend to be a little less forgiving, I think, than rifles when using undersized bullets. But then BP is known for "bumping up" soft bullets.

Your 44/40 dies will not work. The 44/40 is a bottle necked round, with a cartridge base diameter of .471. The 44 Russian has a base diameter of .457. If anything else (never tried that die / caliber combo) you would not be able to resize your Russian brass. Maybe a cheap Lee loader (the old hammer kind)? I noticed the other day Starline has .44 Russian brass in stock.

Larry
 
There are some really good suggestions here!
I've loaded 44 Russian using cut down mag brass and Starline Russian brass.
The cut down seater/crimper is a good idea. You may find the need to trim a bit off the expander plug if you get any bulging near the base of the case. (Maybe my Starline brass was a bit thick in the web...)
Since you like the idea of backwoods reloading, why not try a Lee Loader? Some of the most accurate 44 Mag ammo I've ever shot was loaded with the Lee Loader and a Lee Autoprime. Along the same lines, you may prefer a steel die set to a more modern carbide set. Carbide dies for 44 mag/special usually create a tight bullet fit for strong bullet pull in magnum loads. Unfortunately, this can cause a lead bullet to be slightly swaged down, especially around the base, causing leading and accuracy problems. Besides that, the tight sizing doesn't help case life and eliminates the gentle, almost inperceptible, taper along the case length.
(Redding actually did an interesting test proving that their standard steel dies produce more accurate ammo than a typical carbide die set!)
Anyhow, steel die sets for handgun tend to be available very cheap!

Big thumbs up for loading the oldies with black powder!!

Best regards,
Jim
 
I load for the .44-40, .44 Russian, .44 Special, and .44 Magnum. Neither the Tribulation nor Armageddon are not here yet, so I figured "why do it the hard way?", and got a set of dies for each caliber and use a modern press (OK, it's a 40 year old RCBS Rockchucker, but still...). That way I can set them up and leave them and not have to mess around with them changing from one caliber to the next, and I get excellent results in reliability, accuracy, etc. I use smokeless powder, too, just to keep things simple.

Whether one is using BP or smokeless, the cases still need to be full length re-sized in order to chamber easily.

If I am still alive when the S hits the fan I will have to find ways to cope, like everyone else, but right now "I'm living in tall cotton".

Edit to add: Yes, .44 Russian brass can be made from .44 Special or Magnum brass, but the case walls will be thicker. As mentioned above the bullet base can get distorted during the seating process, but also the sides of the case can get bulged enough from the bullet that the loaded cartridge will not fit readily into the chambers. My suggestion is to man-up and get the right tools since, for now, they are readily available. That is assuming you are able to get mail where you live.
 
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DWalt said:
The main problem in using .44 Spl (or Mag) dies for .44 R would be seating and crimping. I've never attempted shortening a steel seating/crimping die body, but I imagine it could be done with a Dremel tool, some abrasive cutoff discs, and patience. I have somewhere a .44 Mag neck expander die with an aluminum body. That would be a snap to shorten if necessary.
Click to expand...

In my experience, 44 Special or Magnum dies would size the brass, remove the primer, flare the case mouth and seat the bullet perfectly. The only thing it could not do was crimp the loaded cartridge.

I used a chop saw with an abrasive cut-off disk to shorten the seat/crimp die. If I had not had a chop saw available, I would have used an abrasive disk in a Skill Saw with the die body clamped in a vise.
 
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I have some old Lyman pre WWII dies for 44 S&W. They are for a Tru-line Lyman press and also work in a 310 tong tool. The dies will work for both 44 Special and 44 Russian brass, as you adjust length depending on the case. (They won't back out far enough for 44 Mag.) There are die sets for sale on castboolits.com, hand tool forum.

When buying brass for 44 Russian, Be careful! I bought 500 brass from "Top Brass" and about 40% split on the first firing (light Trail Boss load). I also have brass that is from "Starline", which has been reloaded several times.

I have 2, No.3 Russian reproduction pistols by Ubirti and have been shooting them for 8 or 9 years but always with smokeless powder. I have a box of pre WWII Winchester virgin brass, they are for black powder and of the "Balloon-head" design, and hold considerably more powder than the solid web design. I believe you will have to reduce you Black Powder charge by 5 to 8 grains of FFFg in modern cases (maybe a few more for cut down 44 mag cases. I have been loading a 205 grain flat nose bullet ( I use the same bullet in my 44 Special and 44-40 WCF guns) just sized to the right diameter. However the original bullet was a hollow base bullet with a long conical nose, weighing 246 grains (same for 44 Special) The original smokeless pistol powders were much bulkier than Black Powder, so they needed more volume to achieve the same velocity with the same bullet, and that was the demise of the 44 Russian cartridge!

Good luck with your finding a good pistol.

Ivan
 
I have trimmed .44 magnum brass to make .44 Spl, .44 Colt, and .44 Russian. All can be fired in my Ruger .44 magnum.
I found, as stated above, my .44 mag dies would not crimp the .44 Russian or the .44 Colt. Rather than grind on my .44 magnum dies, I bought Lee .44 Russian dies and they work for both.
 
Wow a simplex press.. not seen very often here, I have had a couple and they worked fine but dies are fewer and farther apart. What bullet are you going to load? some 44-40 bullets had hollow bases like the 45 Colt. You may be able to get a little crimp in a 44-40 die if you can get that short case far enough into the die. Seat them by hand. If necessary stake crimp them. With flat based bullets you may need to load a full case of FFFg to bump up the .427 44-40 bullets. BTW advertise down there for another set of Simplex dies in 44-40 and cut the seater die shorter. Even down there Simplex dies are probably not all that expensive..and much more readily available. There may be dies that can be adapted to it.

You can also drill the bases of the bullets out a bit to make 'em expand into the rifling..like a minie bullet. You aren't asking for match accuracy but may be surprised
 
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I would try using a " LEE Classic Loader ' for the 44mag/44spl to try to size the brass (don't know if it will reach the case mouth ) , knock out the primers , flare the case mouth , install the cast bullet ,and for the crimping . I would install primers on the press . I realize it's a slow way to go , but how many are you going to fire at a time I guess is the big question ?
 
sw44russ , if I was going to start reloading that cartridge , the Lee kit is where I would start . I started reloading many yrs ago using them , still have them for backup . Please let us know how it works out , Good Luck
 
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