My 357 mag Bowling pin loads

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RGVshooter

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Some of you may know that according to the rules, bowling pin matches are set up at 25' to the pins. At our informal matches we hold each week, it's much further. We cut the top 6" off the pins and stagger 3 pin bodies with 2 pin tops on a steel table 36" high at 20 yards, 60 feet. Not 25 feet like what everyone else shoots at. 5 pins, 3 big, 2 small, and everyone loads up with 6 rounds only. No time limit, whoever knocks down the most pins wins. 1 pin (big or small) is 1 point if it clears the table, if it falls over but is still on the table that's 1/2 point, unless you shoot it again, clearing the table. So for example, if you have 1 pin still standing and the other guy has two pins on their sides remaining, then it's a tie. Load up another 6 rounds, and at the command, fire. Until whoever wins first. Got it?

With that in mind, we focus more on accuracy & knock down power, slightly less emphasis on speed. Although we do have a few speed demons amongst us.

I settled on my 4" 686 357 magnum. Which also doubled as a occasional carry that's why I chose 4" over 6" barrel. The handloads I came up with IMO are the best balance of power & recoil management as full power commercial 357 magnum can be kinda stout. Monarch 158gr 357 mag can rattle my teeth.

So I came up with this...

158gr Hornady XTP
9.5gr Blue Dot
WSPM primer
COL 1.575"

I haven't chrono'd these yet but it should give me around 1050-1100fps.

Another load that i came up with is

180gr Hornady XTP
11.9gr H110
WSPM
COL 1.590"

again est around 1100fps. But will chromo these later this week and come back with results.

The 158 recipe came out of Hornady #9 and the recoil is warmer than 38spl +P but very manageable recoil out of my 4" 686.

The 180's are definitely magnum territory and clear the pins clean off the table. Recoil is also manageable. But you can tell it has some ummf. I might back off the H110 a bit lol...
 
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Don't back off H110 too much;it is not the best powder to download.
Your version of the sport sounds like fun.I'll see if I can get some guys interested at the range.
 
Qc Pistolero said:
Your version of the sport sounds like fun.I'll see if I can get some guys interested at the range.
Click to expand...

It is ridiculous how much fun full grown men (and a few ladies) can have shooting bowling pins at this distance outside. If you hit the pin tops just right, they can go sailing upwards of 20' in the air and disappear in the resaca behind the berm, never to be seen again... lol
 
WHATEVER

Once the pins become well used, each balances & reacts differently when hit. The unpredictability is what makes it so fun IMO. Different clubs/different rules & distances. MOST/all regulars I know reload with flat nosed cast. (XTP's WAY too expensive & don't have the wide/flat nose that cast do). Speed/accuracy/recoil recovery times seem to be better with a 158 gr & slower velocity, but TEHO.
 
nachogrande said:
Once the pins become well used, each balances & reacts differently when hit. The unpredictability is what makes it so fun IMO. Different clubs/different rules & distances. MOST/all regulars I know reload with flat nosed cast. (XTP's WAY too expensive & don't have the wide/flat nose that cast do). Speed/accuracy/recoil recovery times seem to be better with a 158 gr & slower velocity, but TEHO.
Click to expand...

Yeah the XTP's are adding up $$$. I still have a box of Badman bullets. 500 158gr. cast LSWC. I'm currently going thru my books to find the hottest loads I can find for this bullet. So far the only thing I found was from Titegroup

38 special
3.8gr titegroup
158gr cast LSWC
COL 1.475"
EST 920fps.

OR

357 magnum case

158gr cast LSWC
5.0gr Titegroup
COL 1.588"
EST 1075fps
 
Titegroup????

Though I find that fast target powders can be loaded up pretty warm, Titegroup is at the other end of the spectrum if you are looking for velocity in a heavy bullet.

Acc #7, Acc #9, Alliant 2400 and HS6 should do the job easily. I know that Acc#7 can be reduced greatly with no changes in properties.
 
Some use TG for max loads but with my 6" 357 magnum with a
full load of Green Dot with a 158gr LSWC I can manage 1281fps.
Universal and Unique will do over 1300fps and I did not try 2400powder
since I though this was fast enough for a lead target loading.

Just depends if you want to dump more powder into your cases
for an added 100-150fps.

Have fun.
 
Please advise

Qc Pistolero said:
Don't back off H110 too much;it is not the best powder to download.
Your version of the sport sounds like fun.I'll see if I can get some guys interested at the range.
Click to expand...

In 357 Magnum:

Hodgdons shows a MIN 15gr load of H110/296 @ over 1,400 fps with the 158 GR XTP.

Their MAX 7 gr load of AutoComp is @ almost 1,200 fps for the same bullet. This is at a higher pressure, but nowhere near the 40K+ MAX load for H110/296.

So, 2 questions: would the MAX AutoComp 7 gr load be a good one for the OP's bowling pin application, and...

Which load is considered to be safer?

THANKS!

P.S. 3rd question: Is that MIN 15 gr H110/296 "good to go" for other 158 GR JHP or SJHP's from other major bullet manufacturers, using their crimp groove to determine the OAL?
 
We shoot full pins at 25' against the clock. I have found mass, not speed clears the pin off the table. I use my 627 pro when I shoot revolver and have some 160+ grain SWC's I was given that work pretty good loaded to under 1K fps with HS-6 or CFE. Penn bullets has some 230gr. "thunderheads" that many swear by, but I have yet to try them. What I see a lot is somebody shows up with a 44 mag and wonders why it doesn't clear the table. The high velocity has the bullet exit out the back of the pin putting no energy into it. It just falls over and rolls around.
Have to admit my best pin gun is a Sig 1911 5" with 230gr. coated RN load with WST. Probably 800 to 850 fps. Hit the pin just below the fattest part. You can hear it smack the pin as it comes up an inch or two and goes straight back off the table still upright.
 
Nevada Ed said:
Some use TG for max loads but with my 6" 357 magnum with a
full load of Green Dot with a 158gr LSWC I can manage 1281fps.
Universal and Unique will do over 1300fps and I did not try 2400powder
since I though this was fast enough for a lead target loading.

Just depends if you want to dump more powder into your cases
for an added 100-150fps.

Have fun.
Click to expand...
Try some 2400. I have not handloaded in a while, but I used it in 44mag loads quite succesfully
 
In theory, all that matters is momentum (Mass x Velocity) and 100% energy transfer, meaning the bullet stays inside the pin.

Power factor is used in many shooting games and is a figure derived from momentum. PF = Mass x Velocity divide by 1000 to give a convenient number.

Once you determine the PF needed to realiably knock a pin off the table with a center hit that does not exit, you can apply that PF to ANY combination of bullet & velocity that does not exit...offering up every ounce of its energy to the pin.

For example, the 230 gr bullet @ 800 fps mentioned above has a PF = 230 x 800 /1000 = 184. If that 230 gr bullet with a PF of 184 does not exit the pin and reliably clears it, we know that 184 is sufficient. Therefore, a centered, non-exiting hit from a 125gr HP @ 1474 fps should do the same, but would sure seem a lot ruder and probably wouldn't be favored by anyone.

If the OP's load of 158gr @ 1100 is successful, then any PF = 174 should work as well. That means a 180 @ 965 would be comparable. The recoil signatures will be different, and shooters will differ in which they prefer, but the bowling pin should react the same to both.

HP, RN, wide flat meplat, jacketed, cast ... those features affect penetration. But if there is no over-penetration then bullet design should not matter...only PF.
 
NO NEED TO BE A VELOCITY FREAK.

RGVshooter said:
to find the hottest loads I can find.
Click to expand...

I THINK you would be better served with a bullet/load combo dedicated for BP. Pins are relatively close & are no risk to your life, so no real need for THE HOTTEST/FASTEST. See what you shoot fast & accurate. For centerfire revolver I alternate between a model 10-6 (38 special only), and a L frame model 681 (357), but use the same 38 special 148 gr DEWC cast boolit seated flush in either gun, & it is surprising how hard they hit both BP's and steel plates with only 2.7 grs of bullseye. Recoil is unnoticed, & they are able to be shot fast & accurate. If I could find a 180 gr DEWC for 357, I would certainly try that, but not push the velocity envelope, no need to. It is such a fun event it really doesn't matter what you use, or if you win, to me. anyway.
 
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** NOTHING** CLEARS A TABLE LIKE...

Hitting the pins. ;) Mass/speed/shape are for naught if you miss. A weirdly weighted down pin probly won't react "as planned" every time. Saw a "perfect" low center hit pin flip up in the air & land standing up right where it started. Things like that are why BP is hands down the most fun event for me. The old timer that got me "forced me" to try it, even though all I had that day was a 9mm semi, showed me that it DON'T MATTER what you use. FUN IS FUN, regardless.
 
Years ago in a far away galaxy, I had good luck with a 29-2 with
a 8 3/8 barrel shooting 245 grain Keith cast bullets at about
800 to 850 fps. Don't remember the powder.
 
mike campbell said:
In theory, all that matters is momentum (Mass x Velocity) and 100% energy transfer, meaning the bullet stays inside the pin.
Click to expand...

In theory... Problem is every bowling pin I've met failed physics in high school. A big lump of lead with a big cross section has proven to me to work best. I'd like to try a deagle in 50ae with a 300+ grain cast SWC loaded to 750 fps. Probably wouldn't cycle the action but I think it would smack pins off a table.
 
Nothing in the universe escapes the laws of physics...even the dumbest bowling pins don't get a pass.
 
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My pin gun is a M29 in 44 Auto Mag with 300 gr. bullets at 915 fps. That load will take off 2 pins lying down together, even if they are already full of lead. Bullet weight is King for bowling pins. Best times when shooting a lot way back when were around 4.5 - 5 seconds. Some people were faster with .45 ACP auto or revolver.
 
Hate to have to beg, but would some be kind enough to PLEASE answer the 3 questions I posed in post #9?

THANKS!
 
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