Lee Dipper Reloading Data 38/357

Hello everyone. I am looking for some help please with more up to date Lee data. I use the Lee dippers to charge my cases. I am looking for one powder for both 38/357 rounds. I will be using 158 grain Speer LSWC and CCI #500 primers. Does anyone have a newer edition of the Lee manual with more up to date information? According to my copy of the book, there are only two powders that I can use for both 38/357 with 158 grain lead bullet AND the Lee dippers. Those are Accurate #5 (out of stock/backordered) and Blue Dot. Can anyone share their data from a more modern copy of the book please? Thank you for the help.

It is very hard for me to believe that your manual does not list...........

Bullseye and Unique as two of the powders for those two cartridges?

Good luck.

Nevada Ed said:

It is very hard for me to believe that your manual does not list...........

Bullseye and Unique as two of the powders for those two cartridges?

Good luck.

Click to expand...

Howdy. The manual lists a lot of powders that can be used IF you are using a powder despensor but I am using the Lee dipper scoops. They measure in cc volume and not weight. Therefor I am limited as to the powders that I can use....due to using the dippers. For example:

To use 5.3 grains of Accurate #5 I use the 0.3cc dipper. The charges for Bullseye, Unique, or Universal are listed as N/A for the dippers...as the dippers do not line up with those charges.

You need to do a little more home work......

Alliant red, green, unique, 2400 and w231, 296 and hodgdon powders are listed on the net.

That .3cc dipper will hold 2.8grs of Bullseye.

Do you have a scale to double check powder weights... ?
stay safe.

The powder dispensing chart for the Lee Auto Disc dispensers should give you some options as they, like the dippers, are in cc’s.

Here is the latest one online.

https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/PAD_AD_Chart.pdf

I don’t know how old your dipper guide is but this lists .30cc’s of AA #5 at only 4.8 Gns.

For less than $50 you could invest in the Lee Auto Drum powder measure which gives infinite settings, or for even less get the Perfect Powder Measure which, with an adaptor, can go on top of your charge die if you choose not to use a stand.

I believe that the reason the dipper guide marks powders as unsuitable is due to the very light charges that the dippers can not deliver.

While a whole lot slower than the drum dispenser and requiring very close attention, the Perfect measure is great for those very small charges. I use mine for .38 S&W and .32 Auto (both less than 2.5 gns of powder) as well as rifle charges.

For less than $50 I'll sell You a powder measure and a scale. Then You can quit the dip.

Nevada Ed said:

You need to do a little more home work......

Alliant red, green, unique, 2400 and w231, 296 and hodgdon powders are listed on the net.

That .3cc dipper will hold 2.8grs of Bullseye.

Do you have a scale to double check powder weights... ?
stay safe.

Click to expand...

Let me explain a bit more on the what and why. As some of you know, I am legally blind. I use the Lee dipper system and the Lee data to take my eyes out of the reloading and make it safer and easier on je. Yes, I have a Lee safety scale but it is difficult to read. I can use my $850 digital magnifier as needed. I realize that limiting myself to the Lee dippers does limit my powder choices butI am ok with that for my purpose of plinking. I have taken my Lee scale and Accurate #5 with the correct dipper and I get 5.3 grains every single time. No matter what you do with the dipper the charge can not exceed 5.4 grains even if you heap it. Accurate #5 is out of stock and I am low on piwder. I am looking for piwders that I can use with my dippers.....that is a safe charge, no scale, just scoop and go. I have contacted Lee and they confirm as does the book....if you use the dippers and the Lee data...no scale is needed because the work has already been done. What I want to know is this.....has the Lee data been updated since my copy of the book? Do I just stick with AA#5 and wait for it to be back in stock or try Blue Dot which will work with the Lee dippers and their data. Lee data says I need 3.5 grains of Bullseye for 38 special 158 grain. No Lee dipper will yield 3.5 grains of Bullseye. See my problem? Again the Lee dippers allow me to be consistant every charge and eliminates any mistake I might make with a piwder throwing device such as it not feeding correctly because of something I did not see. Thanks again for the help.

You didn't ask for this advice so please ignore it completely if it offends you on any level.

Been loading for three decades-plus and it still blows my mind that I didn't truly understand the nuances of powder and powder selection until a good 10 years in to my learning curve.

Fact: Powder, priced even badly, should cost you no more than $30 for a pound out the door, and just that one pound of powder at it's absolute heaviest charge weight in .357 Magnum will be enough to roll eight full boxes of ammo. And the different powder for .38 Special will roll you more than 25 boxes of ammo.

More important FACT: Using a great .38 Special powder in .357 Magnum loads will make .357 Magnum loads that not only do NOT perform up to the potential of true .357 Magnum, they will not sound nor feel like true .357 Magnum and here's the unhappy special bonus -- they will do so with all the pressure and ugly peak pressure as a proper .357 Magnum round, with a pressure curve that is far more spiky and dangerous than a proper .357 Magnum round made with a proper, slower burning powder.

Summary: if you are being dropped off on a deserted island for a decade and you have to choose between multiple powders or food and drink then sure, load .357 Magnum with a .38 Special powder or attempt to pick a middle road powder. But if you can afford $30 for a single pound, buy a proper powder for .357 Magnum and make proper loads.

You will make better ammo and you will in fact make safer ammo.

To reiterate, these characteristics of powder and powder selection are the antithesis of obvious. I had been making my own ammo successfully for a 10 years before I learned the nuances of powder and powder selection.

.357 Magnum ammo made with Titegroup, AA#2, Bullseye or Ramshot Zip will never again ever come from my load bench or be chambered in any of my guns, because I know better.

.357 Magnum ammo made with H-110, AA#9, Power Pro 300-MP or others is better, safer, more genuine .357 Mag ammo than anything that anyone could possibly craft with Titegroup or Bullseye or the like.

Groo here
If you don't have one , get the Lee dipper set. there are 12 or more
dipper AND a chart that tells you how much of a given powder EACH
dipper will throw...
As you found , a dipper will not throw OVER the amount listed
Lee safe factor.
Then look in your manuals for load ranges.
I use dippers most all the time and pick a dipper in the middle to upper
[but not over] range [ knowing the Lee safe factor]
Not for max loads , not for min loads, but for middle loads [like we mostly load] works fine.
For powder , I have used mostly Bullseye ,Unique, and a powder in the 2400 burn range.
If you need just one , Unique...............................................................................
PS don't worry about the load differences using a flake powder [Unique]
as long as you use the same dippding styled each time the groups will be fine...

Groo01 said:

Groo here
If you don't have one , get the Lee dipper set. there are 12 or more
dipper AND a chart that tells you how much of a given powder EACH
dipper will throw...
As you found , a dipper will not throw OVER the amount listed
Lee safe factor.
Then look in your manuals for load ranges.
I use dippers most all the time and pick a dipper in the middle to upper
[but not over] range [ knowing the Lee safe factor]
Not for max loads , not for min loads, but for middle loads [like we mostly load] works fine.
For powder , I have used mostly Bullseye ,Unique, and a powder in the 2400 burn range.
If you need just one , Unique...............................................................................

Click to expand...

I echo this and you could use colored tape on the handles or a large marker to distinguish them for you vision problems.

For .38 Special Alliant gives a 3.5 gn charge under a 158 gn LSWC bullet.

The Lee .34 dipper gives 3.2 gns and the .37 dipper gives .35 gn exactly.

In 357 Magnum the Alliant charge is 4.8 gn with the same bullet. The Lee .49 dipper will give a 4.6 gn charge.

Hope that helps you.

Thank you all for the help. I do have the complete Lee dipper set in the factory box. I have the slide card as well. I understand that I am limiting myself by using the dippers. I am going to stay safe and that is why I want to stick with what Lee has printed in their book. I am also pretty new to reloading so when the Lee data says that a certain powder is N/A for use with a given charge or dipper, I simply avoid the powder. The dippers work great for me because it takes a lt of eyesight out of the powder charge. Sure it is slower but I am fine with that. I enjoy using my Lee hand press as well.

I can help you with dippers...I use them a lot and the hand press .
Here are loads I use that work nicely :

38 Special , 158 gr. LSWC , .3cc dipper = 2.8 grs. Bullseye.
Nice pleasant target / plinking load .
Can also use the 148 gr. lead wadcutter bullet for a classic target load .

38 Special , 158 gr. LSWC , .5cc dipper = 5.0 grs. Unique .
Standard velocity 38 spcl load not quite +P but close .

357 Magnum , 158 gr. SWC GC (gas check) , .5cc dipper =
7.7 grains Accurate Arms No. 5 . This load develops about 1,000 fps
and is my standard 357 mag. general purpose load .

I like to use dippers because of the safety aspect . Dip a charge , pour into case , seat bullet ...not a lot to go wrong .
Also can be a very precise way to measure powder...once you learn how to do it.
Slow...maybe , but I don't see any speed reloading trophies handed out to the fastest reloader . Slow = Safe is the way I look at it .
The problem with dippers is they hamstring you with powder selection. You just about have to use two or three powders .
Just no getting around it . Plus Lee has two dippers suitable for handgun .3cc and .5cc ...thats it ! I make a lot of dippers to cover the inbetween sizes ... you have to for handguns .

All of the powder weights listed above for a dipper have been verified by myself based on my dipping method , you might want to double check the weights against your method . There might be some slight differences , none of my loads are maximum .

Load Safe,
Gary

i started out dipping my powder , have never quit . The Lee .5cc scoop throws 4.7 grs of Bullseye powder according to Lee data . Alliant lists 4.8 grs max in a 357 magnum case using a 158 gr bullet for a velocity of about 900+ fps , depending on barrel length , your gun etc . On my scales , I get 4.6grs . For just punching paper , that is a good load , very accurate . That .3cc scoop using bullseye with a 148gr full wadcutter bullet is 2.8grs of Bullseye powder which is the perfect load using that bullet . I have used that load many many times . So you see , Bullseye powder will work for both 38spl and 357 mag giving great target loads using the LEE dippers . I hope this helps , Regards, Paul

I find the Lee dippers have too big a gap between measures for pistol reloading. I have written Lee trying to get them to make a set just for pistol that has a bit more range between the current sizes. To no avail.

Fortunately, it is really pretty simple to make your own to throw anything you want. I found a .38 case full of Trail Boss is perfect for the .41 Magnum. Didn't even have to cut down the case that time.

gwpercle said:

I can help you with dippers...I use them a lot and the hand press .
Here are loads I use that work nicely :

38 Special , 158 gr. LSWC , .3cc dipper = 2.8 grs. Bullseye.
Nice pleasant target / plinking load .
Can also use the 148 gr. lead wadcutter bullet for a classic target load .

38 Special , 158 gr. LSWC , .5cc dipper = 5.0 grs. Unique .
Standard velocity 38 spcl load not quite +P but close .

357 Magnum , 158 gr. SWC GC (gas check) , .5cc dipper =
7.7 grains Accurate Arms No. 5 . This load develops about 1,000 fps
and is my standard 357 mag. general purpose load .

I like to use dippers because of the safety aspect . Dip a charge , pour into case , seat bullet ...not a lot to go wrong .
Also can be a very precise way to measure powder...once you learn how to do it.
Slow...maybe , but I don't see any speed reloading trophies handed out to the fastest reloader . Slow = Safe is the way I look at it .
The problem with dippers is they hamstring you with powder selection. You just about have to use two or three powders .
Just no getting around it . Plus Lee has two dippers suitable for handgun .3cc and .5cc ...thats it ! I make a lot of dippers to cover the inbetween sizes ... you have to for handguns .

All of the powder weights listed above for a dipper have been verified by myself based on my dipping method , you might want to double check the weights against your method . There might be some slight differences , none of my loads are maximum .

Load Safe,
Gary

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Finally, someone who understands what I am doing and working with here. I would like to buy you a soda. LOL Thank you for the help. I am restricting myself to a few powder choices and I am ok withthat. I am happy to use AA#5 but it is out of stock at Midway.

Load with whatever powders you have/can get . Western Powders (Accurate Arms) may be out of stock at Midway but it will not be for long. They are pretty good with production & distribution .
I discovered them during the great powder shortage (2013 / 2015) couldn't find my usual Bullseye or Unique anywhere .
Local dealer had received a huge shipment of Accurate/ Western Powders and there was nothing else on the shelves ... So , I tried
AA #2 and AA #5 , liked them both . They dip very consistently...a little better than Bullseye and Unique.
Glad to be of help ,
Gary

Groo01 said:

]
As you found , a dipper will not throw OVER the amount listed
Lee safe factor.

Click to expand...

Gentlemen...

DO NOT TRUST THE VMD DATA, DIPPING CHART, ETC.

The published information is a rough guide, that may or may not be up-to-date. I've gotten individual pounds of powder that were off by 25-35%, in both directions.

Verify charges with a scale, whether you're using a dispenser or dippers, at the start of every reloading session. And make doubly-sure to do so when opening a new jar of powder.

Literally any time someone says, "I can not have an accident because my equipment will not allow it", I can assure you, they are wrong.

Long time dipper user here. What you need are more dippers. You can buy them from Lee for about a buck apiece. Get a few extras for the recommended size and then get some for the next size larger. Use the larger size and then cut out small circles of cardboard or whatever you have. Using your scale, just keep jamming more pieces of cardboard in the dipper (reducing its volume) until you get it to give you the weight you want for that particular powder. Once you get them fine tuned then label the dipper for whatever powder you used. Obviously use the same technique for the recommended dipper if it is giving you too much weight for a certain powder.
For an example, my two favorite powders for 9mm are #5 and Autocomp. Using the described method I found that I could use the same dipper for both. 5.6 grains of Autocomp took up the same volume of 6.4 of #5.

jag22 said:

Long time dipper user here. What you need are more dippers. You can buy them from Lee for about a buck apiece. Get a few extras for the recommended size and then get some for the next size larger. Use the larger size and then cut out small circles of cardboard or whatever you have. Using your scale, just keep jamming more pieces of cardboard in the dipper (reducing its volume) until you get it to give you the weight you want for that particular powder. Once you get them fine tuned then label the dipper for whatever powder you used. Obviously use the same technique for the recommended dipper if it is giving you too much weight for a certain powder.
For an example, my two favorite powders for 9mm are #5 and Autocomp. Using the described method I found that I could use the same dipper for both. 5.6 grains of Autocomp took up the same volume of 6.4 of #5.

Click to expand...

Interesting idea. I did not think of that. I own the complete Lee dipper set with 15 dippers in it. Thanks for the help and helping me learn.