Are all 148gr. lead wadcutters hollow base? If not, which is
more accurate: hollow base or solid base?
more accurate: hollow base or solid base?
38 special148 gr. lead wadcutters
- Thread starter mojave30cal
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No they are not, and it depends. If you have a slightly sloppy bore obviously the hollow base will seal better and grab better. It also changes the amount of bearing surface of the bullet. The bottom line is unless you are REALLY REALLY good either bullet will shoot any reasonable load better than you can hold. I buy and load whichever is easily available, which right now is a real issue.
4barrel
Member
The double end wad cutter likes more speed to be accurate. A good flat base button nose wad cutter is a little more accurate than a double end. A hollow base is king under 800 fps. Some where around 920 fps are my most accurate loads other than hb. I have been trying to find if a lubed wc or alox is more accurate. These are my findings and I haven't found out yet but I just started the alox thing.
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noylj
Member
There are cast wadcutters that may or may not be double-ended, but don't have a hollow base. These bullets can be accurate, but not as accurate as a swaged wadcutter. Commercial swaged wadcutters are about 13 BHN, more than hard enough for any Pistol use except for the new super magnums.
The swaged hollow-base wadcutter is the most accurate but can not be fired near or over 800 fps as the skirt will separate and either lodge in the barrel or put a second hole in the target. So, if you want a high velocity wadcutter load, don't use a hollow-base.
The swaged hollow-base wadcutter is the most accurate but can not be fired near or over 800 fps as the skirt will separate and either lodge in the barrel or put a second hole in the target. So, if you want a high velocity wadcutter load, don't use a hollow-base.
I shot a LOT of 148 lead bullets out of my J frame snub nose for accuracy
and also lighter recoil, for all of us.
True, the soft lead HB is best kept under 850 fps to keep the skirt for seperating, which can happen.
My BBwc bullets are used for the higher vel. target loads in the 850 fps area out of my snub nose but due to the recoil, not very often, since they are at or near a +P loading.
The 148 will work in the longer barrels but my long toms prefer the heavier 158 gr bullets for target work.
and also lighter recoil, for all of us.
True, the soft lead HB is best kept under 850 fps to keep the skirt for seperating, which can happen.
My BBwc bullets are used for the higher vel. target loads in the 850 fps area out of my snub nose but due to the recoil, not very often, since they are at or near a +P loading.
The 148 will work in the longer barrels but my long toms prefer the heavier 158 gr bullets for target work.
gwpercle
Member
There are both hollow based and solid based wadcutters .
Usually the soft swaged factory made ones are hollow base and generally cast wadcutters are solid base ... there is no hard and fast rule written in stone . You can cast hollow base wadcutters .
Generally the soft hollow based wadcutters can only be driven to about 750 fps or the soft skirt will deform or be blown off ... with a loss of accuracy . Some NRA Bullseye shooters load them to 700 fps for indoor 25 yard target shooting . When moving to 50 yard targets , more velocity is needed for stabilization ... they go to the solid base wadcutter and 800+ fps for the longer range .
The hollow base is more accurate at 25 yards at 700 fps but when going to 50 yards the solid base allows more velocity and stabilization thus being more accurate at longer range .
This is all generally speaking ... most of us can't shoot well enough at 25 yards much less 50 yards to appreciate any difference.
My advice is load up whatever type you can get your hands on .
I load a 160 gr. solid base cast wadcutter (Lyman # 358432) with 2.7 grains Bullseye for Targets & tin cans at 25 yards and the same bullet over 5.0 grains Unique for everything else .
Gary
Note - Lyman has discontinued this mould but NOE has brought it back with a little improvement if interested in an excellent accuracy bullet . www.noemoulds.com
NOE 360-160-WC PB (360432)
Usually the soft swaged factory made ones are hollow base and generally cast wadcutters are solid base ... there is no hard and fast rule written in stone . You can cast hollow base wadcutters .
Generally the soft hollow based wadcutters can only be driven to about 750 fps or the soft skirt will deform or be blown off ... with a loss of accuracy . Some NRA Bullseye shooters load them to 700 fps for indoor 25 yard target shooting . When moving to 50 yard targets , more velocity is needed for stabilization ... they go to the solid base wadcutter and 800+ fps for the longer range .
The hollow base is more accurate at 25 yards at 700 fps but when going to 50 yards the solid base allows more velocity and stabilization thus being more accurate at longer range .
This is all generally speaking ... most of us can't shoot well enough at 25 yards much less 50 yards to appreciate any difference.
My advice is load up whatever type you can get your hands on .
I load a 160 gr. solid base cast wadcutter (Lyman # 358432) with 2.7 grains Bullseye for Targets & tin cans at 25 yards and the same bullet over 5.0 grains Unique for everything else .
Gary
Note - Lyman has discontinued this mould but NOE has brought it back with a little improvement if interested in an excellent accuracy bullet . www.noemoulds.com
NOE 360-160-WC PB (360432)
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OP
Thanks for the replies guys. Good information. I have a
question about "alox". What is that?
Also, I have some hard cast lead 158 gr. SWC 38/357 pro-
jectiles that have a dia. of .358. Would those have to be
resized to shoot in a S&W 14-4 6 inch bbl. revolver?
question about "alox". What is that?
Also, I have some hard cast lead 158 gr. SWC 38/357 pro-
jectiles that have a dia. of .358. Would those have to be
resized to shoot in a S&W 14-4 6 inch bbl. revolver?
4barrel
Member
. Alox is a product made by Lee. A bullet that is lead is called boolit by people that cast. Lube keeps the barrel from leading. .358 is the standard size for a lead boolit in 38 special or 357 mag. Jacketed bullets are 357. Some people resize and lube at the same time. Alox is brown and slimy and I mix some mineral spirits<not much of each>with about 50 boolits at a time and heat with a hair drier and mix in a 8'' metal lid. Then I stand them upright with small plyers to dry on a flat piece of clean metal. <Computer case>It takes 24 hours to cure before you load. It doesn't take much. Most people over lube. YouTube has got a lot of hands on video. Get your feet wet and join the reloaders.
A Lyman loading manual is a must have. Take a look at the Cast Boolit Forum.
A Lyman loading manual is a must have. Take a look at the Cast Boolit Forum.
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Alox is a shortened name of an industrial lubricant with several variations. Lyman sold a 50/50 lube of alox beeswax,so did several bullet lube makers, as well as the lee mentioned above. When dried it resembles cosmoline.
You can shoot those .358 bullets as they are. Being hardcast they should be pushed fairly hard to prevent leading by blowby. I have not had the best accuracy with the ones I got from an estate but don't let that deter you. Being hard they need to obdurate or expand to fill the barrel and that won't happen at traditional wadcutter speeds. Try 800 fps minimum.
Scharfschuetzer
Member
Thanks for the replies guys. Good information. I have a
question about "alox". What is that?
Also, I have some hard cast lead 158 gr. SWC 38/357 pro-
jectiles that have a dia. of .358. Would those have to be
resized to shoot in a S&W 14-4 6 inch bbl. revolver?
The original "Alox" bullet lube formula is often called the NRA formula as I think that they had something to do with it. The Alox is mixed with beeswax (I think 50/50) and is soft enough that there is no need for lube heaters on your sizing/lubricating press. I know that when I switched from Lyman graphite lube in the mid 70s to the NRA formula my cast bullet shooting improved dramatically in both handguns and rifles.
While there are many different new wonder lubes on the market now, I still stick with the old NRA formula for good accuracy and protection from leading from 600 fps in handguns to 1,900 fps in rifles.
Speaking of hardness, I cast my bullets softer than most, but when sized to .002" over the bore diameter and lubed with Alox, I get no leading as they obturate and prevent gas blow by. Hard cast commercial bullets are still very usable, but as noted in the post above, can fail to obturate at lower velocities and cause leading. The .358" diameter for lead bullets is fine (if not perfect) for your revolver if its bore and charge hole dimensions are standard. I shoot both commercially cast .358" bullets as well as my own cast bullets of .358" diameter in my Model 14 with excellent results.
30 caliber bullets just sized and lubed with an Alox/beeswax lubricant.
question about "alox". What is that?
Also, I have some hard cast lead 158 gr. SWC 38/357 pro-
jectiles that have a dia. of .358. Would those have to be
resized to shoot in a S&W 14-4 6 inch bbl. revolver?
The original "Alox" bullet lube formula is often called the NRA formula as I think that they had something to do with it. The Alox is mixed with beeswax (I think 50/50) and is soft enough that there is no need for lube heaters on your sizing/lubricating press. I know that when I switched from Lyman graphite lube in the mid 70s to the NRA formula my cast bullet shooting improved dramatically in both handguns and rifles.
While there are many different new wonder lubes on the market now, I still stick with the old NRA formula for good accuracy and protection from leading from 600 fps in handguns to 1,900 fps in rifles.
Speaking of hardness, I cast my bullets softer than most, but when sized to .002" over the bore diameter and lubed with Alox, I get no leading as they obturate and prevent gas blow by. Hard cast commercial bullets are still very usable, but as noted in the post above, can fail to obturate at lower velocities and cause leading. The .358" diameter for lead bullets is fine (if not perfect) for your revolver if its bore and charge hole dimensions are standard. I shoot both commercially cast .358" bullets as well as my own cast bullets of .358" diameter in my Model 14 with excellent results.
30 caliber bullets just sized and lubed with an Alox/beeswax lubricant.
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AJ
US Veteran
I shoot a lot of 148 Grain Wadcutters. I use both the Double Ended Wadcutter and the Hollow Based Wadcutter.
I have a set powder loading of 2.8 grains of Bullseye. I use this for all my .38 Specials and .357 Magnum.
I use the DEWC in 5 different pistols and revolvers. I tend to save the HBWC for use in my S&W Model 52 and my Colt Custom M1911 .38 Special.
This loading and the 148 grain wadcutters work well for me. I cast all the DEWC's myself. Have not found a mold for the HBWC's, but then have never really looked.
OP
AJ...what kind of velocity are you getting with the 2.8 grs.
of Bullseye for .38 Special?
of Bullseye for .38 Special?
AJ
US Veteran
Have never chronographed the loading out of any gun that I own. I have a program called "Quickload" that gives me all sorts of info on loadings. It says when I plug in the different barrel lengths the following for 2.8 grains of Bullseye and a 148 grain bullet:
3.5" 705 FPS
4.0" 732 FPS
5.0" 775 Fps
6.0" 807 FPS
Since I am punching paper with it, does it really matter ? The paper has no complaints. If using the gun as a defensive weapon then I use different loadings. HTH
crstrode
Member
How deep do you seat those when loaded with 5.0 grains of Unique?
I have all three molds DE, HBWC and button nose. I don't like the DE. The HBWC is a little more accurate from bench. I shoot the button nose because I'm not a competition shooter and I can run a mess of BNs in short time. I can also run them 800fps. Good all around bullet for most needs other than long range. WCs of any kind do a good job of dropping the oil pressure of any critter you hit.
I've not found a DEWC that is as accurate as a swaged HBWC.
GypsmJim
Member
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I have used Lee Liquid Alox ever since they first introduced it. Their method is called "tumble lube" and that's what I do. Obviously, the entire boolit is coated. No problem for me since the aesthetics are of no concern, but for semis I wipe off the part that extends past the brass case, so that they feed properly.
How did you lube the ones in your pic without coating the tips?
boatbum101
Member
Following is assuming that bullets are sized correctly , cases etc . Also 38 special mid range target ammo with lead wadcutter bullets .
Pretty much undisputed for serious target accuracy the HBWC is first choice . Especially for 50yd work rather PPC or 2700 quite a few have chosen factory & in BE circles the Remington Targetmaster ( green & white box ) or Win / Western Super Match ( yellow box ) were vogue .
Not many compete with a 38 special these days mainly due to lack of serious choices in that caliber .
Pretty much undisputed for serious target accuracy the HBWC is first choice . Especially for 50yd work rather PPC or 2700 quite a few have chosen factory & in BE circles the Remington Targetmaster ( green & white box ) or Win / Western Super Match ( yellow box ) were vogue .
Not many compete with a 38 special these days mainly due to lack of serious choices in that caliber .
