38 wadcutters

[Tabby Lynn]

Ah, Tabby. I am a person who doesn't believe in doing things that are completely unnecessary and are not done by those who compete at the highest level. Have you ever heard of Bullseye Competition? This is a sport in which the shooter shoots one-handed at targets at 25 and 50 yards. These guys would do anything that would give them the edge in their sport.

Trim .38 Special cases?

"Nope. Seats on rim.
Use a taper crimp if your worried."
James R Chapman, Admin. Bullseye-L Forum
NRA Classification : former PPC Master, ATA 27

"I have never trimmed a revolver case at all. I haven't measured one to see it would be too long either so ignorance may be bliss for me."
John Dervis
NRA Classification : Expert

So, my take on this is, if the finest Bullseye shooters in the country don't do it, who am I to argue with them. A innocuous, simple, extra step? Sorry my friend, but anybody who has done any reloading knows that trimming is the worst part of the reloading sequence. But, hey, knock yourself out if you want to trim your straight wall revolver cases.

Sigh, Have I ever heard of Bullseye Competition, but of course and I shot a lot of it when in the Army, both rifle and pistol. I was on many different military teams, and as such shot a lot of matches, but I have to admit with military issue .45 ammo across military courses. I have come to the point where I really, "Don't give a rats butt what the male counterpart here, or anywhere thinks or does. Why, simply because each and every one of you do you best to disparage anything that any person of the female persuasion has to say. No matter what I care to say, trying to pass on what I have learned over the years, you all down play it. Your comment about ignorance being bliss can simply be turned around. If you haven't tried it you can't even begin to say whether it's effective or not. Before you throw stones, look around at the people working as representatives for the major manufacturers, many do not have male appendages attached to their bodies. I wonder why that is? I am out of here.

 

[USSR]

Hmmm, forgive me, but I neglected to look between your legs, otherwise I would have agreed with what you say.

 

[Forrest r]

Do you mix the BB's in with the paint powder?

Yes, pretty much just use john deere green anymore

 

[Forrest r]

I need to experiment more next time I cast my button nose WC with seating them out. All my .38 and .357 brass was not wadcutter specific brass. As such not seating quite as deep may be beneficial as you're not stuffing the lead cylinder in to brass that more quickly gets thicker in wall thickness. True wadcutter brass has thinner parallel sides deeper than regular brass.

Myself, I don't seat them out because of the different brass. I use the correct expander and that makes the brass a non-issue.
I seat them out further to get the nose of the wc cast bullets out into the leade of the chambers in the of the 357mag cylinders.
In the cut-a-way of the cylinder you can see a "step" in the chambers where the bullets body (full diameter of the bullet) is sitting in that leade/step in the bottom bullet.

Loading the wc bullet long in the 38spl cases puts the bullet out into the leade of the 357mag cylinders chambers greatly increasing accuracy. I use the same reloads in the 38spl revolver (only own 1) and the 357mag revolvers.

158gr fn hp's seated long in the 38spl cases being crimped in the bottom crimp groove. 6-shot groups @ 50ft in a 357mag.

A close-up of that bullet pictured above, the mold casts a 158gr fn hp and a 170gr rfn bullet with a high-low crimp groove. The high-low crimp groove was designed for the bullet to be seated long (crimped in the bottom crimp groove) to fit in the longer l-frame/gp100/etc longer cylinders. The top crimp groove made the reload shorter for loading in n-frames/pythons/etc. I use the bottom crimp groove to get the bullet out into the leade's of the 357mag chambers when using 38spl brass.

Huge difference between a swaged hbwc and cast wc's & hbwc's. Some 35cal wc's and hbwc's I've cast and used in the past.

A s&w 624 44spl and testing 220gr cast hbwc's in it looking for accuracy.

The 220gr cast hbwc's were:
tumble lubed
lubed in the bottom lube groove
lubed in both lube grooves
lubed in both lube grooves + tumble lubed (rpre- powder coating days)
seated flush
seated in top lube groove
seated in bottom lube groove
And yes seat backwards making a huge hp

Anyway, the world is your oyster. Doesn't hurt to experiment looking for what's most accurate in your revolvers.

 

[CWelch58]

Hello everyone!

I was just making some 38 special 148gr wadcutters yesterday and noticed I was wrinkling a few cases. At first, I wrinkled 3 cases out of 50. But then I made 50 more and wrinkled a few more cases than I wanted . Maybe 8 or so.

I tried readjusting my dies. Making sure at first, I wasn't adding too much of a crimp. That didn't seem to work. Then tried to not add as much height??
Book states they should be at 1.160". I left some at 1.180". In my experience, not too far off. Using 3.2g of w231 on a powder coated 148gr.

It's a great load! But my arms got a workout yesterday removing my decapper from my sizer! Next time if I do this, I'll just separate the pile of wrinkled cases and run em all at once.
I made 150 yesterday, so I'm tired today. Maybe I'll rest.

I didn't notice I had this problem when using Barry's 148gr DEWC. This is something that just started happening when I switched to the 148gr powder coated ones. .358" dia. Also.

Should I just get used to sizing them after?! Or am I missing something??
What do you all think?

Lou

It has been my experience that since wadcutters are seated so deep in the case, and expanders don't reach that far down, the base of the wadcutters are hitting un-expanded case.
I use Lyman rifle expanders to reach deeper into the case. A R35 expander plug in a M1 die should do it for 38 special. I use a 32EXP expander plug for my 32H&R magnum loads and with a little adjustment it solved my issue with swaged bottoms on my SWCs.
And, yes! I to believe Lee sizer dies size around 2-3 thousandths too much.
I use Hornady sizer, Lyman M1 expander with a rifle plug, and Lee Factory Crimp Die and they shoot better than factory ammo.
I want a R5 expander plug from a Lyman 35 Rem die set! Any suggestions?

 

[1lnbrdg]

Uniquetech sells slightly larger diameter and longer powder funnel expanders for the Dillon loaders. Worth the money if you're loading HBWC.

 

[crows]

Uniquetech sells slightly larger diameter and longer powder funnel expanders for the Dillon loaders. Worth the money if you're loading HBWC.

I heard about those for use with coated lead bullets, they were supposed to make it easier to reload them without messing up the coating. For me, they didn't work any better.

 

[1lnbrdg]

They are originally designed for the deeper seating WCs. I think someone else sells about the same thing. Just be sure what you're ordering has a larger diameter and length of about equal to the depth needed to seat the WCs. I've seated WCs by hand in unsized cases and followed with the crimping stage.
It's rare for me to find a fired .38 case that won't go back in any of my cylinders without resizing. That's an old trick a lot of the older pistol Masters used for their accuracy loads after reading about reloading in the 50's and 60's. Action type shooting has convinced everyone they need to full length resize all pistol cases but I'd say it depends on the intended use.

 

[Phatforrest]

Lyman 358432 style wadcutters are my favorite. No hollow base to worry about breaking, and you can load them to regular powder levels.

NOE made a modern copy, might be able to snag one before he closes up shop.

Accurate makes a scaled up 44 version, they hit steel like a freight train.

 

[Lou_the_welder]

It has been my experience that since wadcutters are seated so deep in the case, and expanders don't reach that far down, the base of the wadcutters are hitting un-expanded case.
I use Lyman rifle expanders to reach deeper into the case. A R35 expander plug in a M1 die should do it for 38 special. I use a 32EXP expander plug for my 32H&R magnum loads and with a little adjustment it solved my issue with swaged bottoms on my SWCs.
And, yes! I to believe Lee sizer dies size around 2-3 thousandths too much.
I use Hornady sizer, Lyman M1 expander with a rifle plug, and Lee Factory Crimp Die and they shoot better than factory ammo.
I want a R5 expander plug from a Lyman 35 Rem die set! Any suggestions?

I do not know the answer to this question. If anyone wants to chime in. That'd be great!

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Myself, I don't seat them out because of the different brass. I use the correct expander and that makes the brass a non-issue.
I seat them out further to get the nose of the wc cast bullets out into the leade of the chambers in the of the 357mag cylinders.
In the cut-a-way of the cylinder you can see a "step" in the chambers where the bullets body (full diameter of the bullet) is sitting in that leade/step in the bottom bullet.

Loading the wc bullet long in the 38spl cases puts the bullet out into the leade of the 357mag cylinders chambers greatly increasing accuracy. I use the same reloads in the 38spl revolver (only own 1) and the 357mag revolvers.

158gr fn hp's seated long in the 38spl cases being crimped in the bottom crimp groove. 6-shot groups @ 50ft in a 357mag.

A close-up of that bullet pictured above, the mold casts a 158gr fn hp and a 170gr rfn bullet with a high-low crimp groove. The high-low crimp groove was designed for the bullet to be seated long (crimped in the bottom crimp groove) to fit in the longer l-frame/gp100/etc longer cylinders. The top crimp groove made the reload shorter for loading in n-frames/pythons/etc. I use the bottom crimp groove to get the bullet out into the leade's of the 357mag chambers when using 38spl brass.

Huge difference between a swaged hbwc and cast wc's & hbwc's. Some 35cal wc's and hbwc's I've cast and used in the past.

A s&w 624 44spl and testing 220gr cast hbwc's in it looking for accuracy.

The 220gr cast hbwc's were:
tumble lubed
lubed in the bottom lube groove
lubed in both lube grooves
lubed in both lube grooves + tumble lubed (rpre- powder coating days)
seated flush
seated in top lube groove
seated in bottom lube groove
And yes seat backwards making a huge hp

Anyway, the world is your oyster. Doesn't hurt to experiment looking for what's most accurate in your revolvers.

Those 44 wadcutters look like fun! I wonder if anyone can recommend an outfit that sells em? Coated hopefully.

Pouring lead is something I will not do anymore. I did it for 25 years and that's it for me.

" the world is your oyster " very true....

 

[USSR]

It has been my experience that since wadcutters are seated so deep in the case, and expanders don't reach that far down, the base of the wadcutters are hitting un-expanded case.

I do not know the answer to this question. If anyone wants to chime in. That'd be great!

A way around this is to partial resize the case. Only resize the case as far as the expander reaches.

 

[Forrest r]

Those 44 wadcutters look like fun! I wonder if anyone can recommend an outfit that sells em? Coated hopefully.

Pouring lead is something I will not do anymore. I did it for 25 years and that's it for me.

" the world is your oyster " very true....

I cast those 220gr hollow based wad cutters. In the past I've cast these hbwc's/button nosed wc's/type III wc's.

The 200gr and 245gr wc's are type III wc's. I sold the 245gr (bottom right) mold. The 200gr (top right) wc's are cast from a "special order" cramer mold that is a 2-cavity top pour mold, IE perfect bullet bases every cast.

That home cast 220gr hbwc using 8/9bhn alloy makes 1 heck of a hp to use in a snubnosed 44spl/1000fps load.

 

[bananaman]

I bought a lot of components at a flea market years ago. Kinda ballpark figured it out that I ended up with around $200 of stuff for $30. Included were 148 gr. wad cutters. My 14-3 really liked them. My Lee Turret Press not so much. My dies got all leaded up. Cleaned them up after the bullets were gone. Bob

 

[RebCop]

I love hollow based wad cutters as they allow a fudge factor. I use them most in my .38 S&W revolvers and a Rook rifle I have in .360 Rook. The bullet bumps up in both and gives good accuracy. The Rook rifle took a heal bullet like a .22 but a HBWC in a .38 Special case works well with 60 yard iron sight groups in the 3/4 inch range.

 

[sniper]

Wow, at the different opinions! My only experience with HB Wadcutters was in the '80s, when I tried to load some of them backwards, which ended when a significant number keyholed at 25 yards.
I am wanting to try some solid wadcutters in my 357 Magnum using Magnum brass. Being a self-taught reloader, I try to get as much info as I can...sometimes too much. People I respect from following on Internet sites are all over the place...some say they trim their pistol brass for consistency, others say they have never, etc.,etc.
I have trimmed all of my pistol brass; the "consistency" thing may or may not be valid (for me) I'm not that great of a pistol shot anyway. Like most of the other old Fudds at the range, I'm satisfied keeping most of my rounds inside an 8 inch bullseye at 25 yards! BUT... finally found a power drill adapter for my trimmer, which makes that chore much less hateful! Without fail, reloading manuals have "trim to" lengths listed, so I guess it's whatever works for you. With my taper crimp die, I can probably use all those "too short" cases!
If a person is Male, Female or "identifys as", no matter, if they have good, verifiable, repeatable information and experiences ... welcome to the discussion!