I have been very lucky in purchasing a revolver issued to an RAF fighter pilot from WW2 and its what I would describe (without the exact model Mk knowledge !) as a pre Victory model M&P serial no. 700701. The RAF stamp is stamped over the Made in USA marks on the left side of the frame.

I know it was shot down twice whilst in a holster worn by the pilot once in North Africa and once in Burma but after close strip down and examination today I am amazed at what an excellent condition it is in. It was carried daily by all accounts in a holster in extreme weather conditions especially in the jungle but its bluing is perfect at about 70% with three rust corrosion spots. On the frame (where the RAF initials are stamped), one on one of the cylinder recesses and a spot on the barrel. There is minor holster wear at the end of the barrel but apart from that it all seems pretty perfect elsewhere.

I have a few revolvers that have been refinished (pre WWI and issue WWI Webleys) and they clearly have been re finished to the untrained eye, but this gun just looks original despite what hardships it must have faced. Is there any way I can tell for sure if it was refinished ?

There is no british military stampings on it at all surprisingly (apart from the RAF marks) - trust me I know how my country used to love stamping marks everywhere on guns but this has none !! I have the Webleys with unit marks and proof stamps everywhere and a S&W .455 MKII which has the expected proof, military broard arrow and decommission marks but the .38 has none of these apart from a Brit nitro proof mark.

The case hardening is crisp and there is no wearing off of the S&W logo on the right plate as you might expect with polishing. In fact the very fact the RAF stamp is rusted in the grooves of the stamp makes me think its original finish. Someone at one stage did use the left side of the frame to either hammer a nail or something similar (I like to imagine the pilot hitting a vital Spitfire instrument panel gauge in flight trying to make it work !) but I am sure it was something as simple as it being used as a tool with no hammer to hand !!

Also someone somewhere prior to it being issued to the pilot did a trigger job on it - the single action pull is a beautiful crisp 2lbs. The pilot is still alive and I have been in contact with him and one of his main recollections was when he remarked about how light the trigger pull was on the gun. I cant imagine this was a RAF armorer doing this - could this have been a factory trigger pull at that time for a war issue gun ??

I have to take and post some photos tomorrow as this gun fascinates me and now our gun laws ban us from owning such guns I know how lucky I am in having this !

Yes, absolutely want to see some photos of this one.

It likely shipped during the second half of 1939. I'd highly recommend you obtain a factory letter on it.

__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Check the mainspring strain screw in front of the grip strap. Be sure it's tight. If someone backed off that screw, that may account for the light trigger pull. It may also cause misfres, especially on ammo with British primers/caps, which are hard.

However, S&W trigger pulls are almost always lighter than on Webley and Enfield revolvers. That may easily account for the difference.

A No. 2 lead pencil may remove some of the rust. Oil it with some penetrating, protective oil like Break-Free CLP, if you can find it there.

Is the holster gray or light olive green? RAF holsters and belts were gray.

What planes did this pilot fly? Can he share some war experiences? We have members here very interested in the WW II air war, and I am especially intrigued with the British and Commonwealth end.

I've seen photos of pilots in Burma wearing revolvers. Some had Webley MK VI's, I think, and the rest .38's, many surely S&W's. One base where photos were taken hosted the famed "Ginger" Lacey. In one fight, he nailed a Jap plane with just nine 20mm shells. His armorer was amazed when he counted the ammo. Lacey was flying a Spitfire MK VIII at the time, I think.

I very much want to see photos of this .38, please.

Thanks for the replies guys - yes the pilot can recount his war experiences - thats why I ended up buying the gun. I will post the whole story when I get to my work computer on monday where its all stored.

In the meantime the 1st time he was shot down was when he was flying a Hawker Hurricane in a dogfight with a german fighter in North Africa, he crash landed and was picked up by his Wing Commander.

In Burma he was flying a MK IX Spitfire and he was shot down by friendly fire from a B29 flight.

Happy days !!

Now with photos - hopefully they will come out OK.

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Major Harry HOFFE and his Spitfire - the first aircraft is a Mk V he flew in Italy and the second is a Mk IX in Burma - 152 'Hyderabad' Sqn unit markings were 'UM' as the Wing leader his aircraft is marked 'T'. In Burma the Squadron adopted a leaping panther as their symbol and the incorporated it around the RAF roundel. Note how the RAF roundel doesnt have the traditional red circle in the centre. I didnt know why they changed the roundel design in Burma until someone explained it to me, and after that it seemed bloody obvious !!

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Wow, way cool!!!!!!!

Nice photos, and a fascinating story!

As Texas Star mentioned above, tighten the screw at the bottom front of the grip frame snug; this will increase mainspring tension and probably make the trigger pull a little heavier.

This is one of the earlier guns in the British/Commonwealth contract, as it has a matte blue finish. The very early ones had a highly polished commercial blue finish, and soon after yours the "pre-Victory" series and beyond changed to the Black Magic finish, similar to Parkerizing.

I gather avoiding confusion with a certain other country's aircraft markings was the motivation to change the roundel, correct?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Yes, exactly that ! I cant believe why I didnt twig it myself. As I say its pretty obvious when you think about it !

This photo of Maj Hoffe it appears he is wearing a monocle, however I have other photos of him where he isnt wearing one - by other accounts by his men he was a bit of a hard drinking joker who loved a practical joke so it could well be he is messing about for the camera in this photo. I also doubt there were many monocle wearing pilots in WW2 !

The US had to do the same thing, the early war aircraft marking was a large white star with a small red dot in the middle...that changed pretty quickly!

Edited to add - it appears to have a 6" barrel? That is also unusual, the standard length is 5" but these are known to have been made, along with a few 4" originally designated for South Africa but diverted to Britain also.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

That's the best condition RAF marked pre victory I've encountered, plus the history. Nice piece and thanks for sharing.

I think the reason it has little damage from British stamps is that he was actually issued it in North Africa when he joined his first operational squadron, he then kept it with him to the far east and then returned home to South Africa at the end of the war. Its very possible the gun never entered the UK at all and was simply shipped to a major Allied base in Africa so it neatly avoided the initial British broad arrow marks. Him taking it away after the war as a souvenir avoided the double arrow decommission markings and all the other rubbish they stamped everywhere - there is a modern UK proof mark under the barrel next to the serial no. when it eventually came to the UK and clearly the proof marker decided to go easy on the guns finish when proofing it.

I went to check to see if the grips had the serial no. pencilled on the flats and was pleased to find that the serial no. was actually stamped into the wood like its stamped into the metal on the gun - I have not heard of this before on this site so was wondering if that was a standard wartime feature ?

I think the RAF armorer was drunk when he stamped the RAF markings, either that or he had 300 to do before lunch and wanted to knock off early !

I think stamped stock panel numbers were standard by this time.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The English proof mark(s) under the bbl are interesting.
The one nearest the frame is the'Nitro Proof' from the London Proof House.
I really can't recall a firearm that was 'sold from service' there or otherwise put back into the private ownership market with London Proof House marks.

That job was left for the Birmingham Proof House, long considered the 'other proof house', a quiet dispute over bragging rights that goes back to the 1600's.

The mark itself on this revolver looks like it was punched with 2 separate stamps. One for the NP,,one for the arm w/sword. The London NP mark I've always seen has been a single stamp, everything centered and the single separation bar/line between the upper figure and the lower NP w/ perfect spacing up and down.
This mark is suspect in all of that.
Plus the other required proof marking(s) are missing.

The other mark I can't quite make out. It looks more like an Arsenal inspection mark than a proof mark.
If it's an 'IP'/D7 or O7,,it's nothing I'm familiar with as far as an inspection marking. There are many different ones though.
Longbranch (Canada) did use 'IP' for an inspection mark but it's placed at the bottom of the cross in their Crown & crossed pennants configuration. That certainly doesn't fit in here.
Ishapore used an 'IS' inspection mark, but it looks like an 'IP'/ to me.

The full set of London proof marks should also have a 'view mark' .
Crown/V if the proof was done after 1925 but before 1955,,,,Crown/GP if it was done after 1955.
AFAIK the NP and View mark should have each been stamped inside of a circle to indicate the proofing of a firearm not made in England. The same proof regs were followed by both London & Birmingham.
Also the 'Not English Make' would have been mandated to be stamped if proofed between 1925 and 1955.

I imagine the right person with the right connections could have gotten the revolver 'walked through' the proof process at the London Facility. Things seem to work that way no matter where you are.
That doesn't explain the two piece stamping for the existing NP mark nor the lack of the 'view' proof.

Very nice revolver though and it all just adds to the history when you consider where it came from and where it's been.

WOW!! is right. That's a fine looking firearm anywhere.
I'm glad you shared. The pilot's skill/luck in coming out of
that dark time, and, with the gun, is extraordinary.
Next time you see the pilot, tell him thanks for his service.
TACC1

Very interesting history. This gun, ser. # 700701, and may have been in a group of revolvers with 6 inch barrels, that included ser. # 701178, (also marked RAF in same fashion as 700701) that were ready to ship in Jan. 1940, but for reasons unknown now, did not ship until Sept. 1941. Ser. # 704824 is also stamped RAF ( and with the Flight Officer's name on the grips) and was shipped in Jan. 1940. Ed.

I picked up on him being South African when you gave his rank as Major, not as Squadron Leader or whatever is the RAF equivalent.

The gun seems to have come via the RAF, but there was also a separate South African Air Force, which operated largely in Italy. I am intrigued to see that he served in Burma, and that he had a MK IX Spit, not the MK VIII that was more usual there, and was actually a later variant, the MK IX being an emergency lashup of a MK V with dual radiators and a more powerful engine, to enable it to compete with the FW-190. Tropical usage of Hurries and Spits usually involved fitting a bulky air filter to the engine, diminishing its performance, to filter sand and excessive dust. The MK IX and later Spits had a trimmer filter in the engine. P-40's in RAF and other Allied use didn't seem to need the bulky filters. They had to operate below 15,000 feet, or the Allison engines lost power. But in the Med. theater and the far east, gave good service. A number of pilots became aces in those Curtiss planes, notably "Killer" Cain.

Far Eastern RAF planes had blue and gray roundels, to avoid any momentary confusion with red markings on Jap planes. In the Pacific, NZ and Aussie P-40's had blue and white roundels, and some had the rear half of the fuselage painted white, to hopefully keep USN fighters from attacking! I think they also went after USAAF planes, anything not US Naval. Dumb swabs...The problem was pretty serious for Allied fighters based on Guadalcanal. I guess the Navy couldn't confuse a P-38 with anything else, though.

Ask this guy if he was really RAF or SAAF. And can you post the photos so that we can enlarge them? They're pretty tiny. I especially want to see the panther marking on the Spitfire.

Did this pilot emigrate to the UK, or what? His name is Hoffe? Is he an Afrikaaner?

I have seen a photo of RAF pilots in North Africa, and they all had these six-inch barelled M&P .38's sticking out of their Pattern 37 webbing holsters. Only by leaning the butts of the guns way out could they close the flaps. The holsters are made for five-inch barrels.

The SAAF used Hurricanes, MK V and (maybe) MK IX Spitfires, and Mustangs as their primary fighters. I have a book on the SAAF and it shows many planes over the years and squadron markings.

My brother once owned a six-inch .38-200 like this one.

Texas Star,

I must admit you are entirely correct and I missed out on the detail that they were issued MK IXs in 1943 but reverted to MK VIII's in Dec 43 when posted to the far east.

Most of my research comes from their squadron website that you should find interesting: 152 Hyderabad Squadron

You will find details of the aircraft here and more photos of the panther symbol. Also the photos I posted are in the Gallery 2 1942 - 1946. Your observations about allied aircraft being mis identified and shot at by other nations aircraft is entirely correct but it was the USAAF not the USN that shot him down the second time !

Whilst he was a SAAF officer he was serving with an RAF Squadron, after the war he returned to South Africa, with this M&P and a captured Japanese Akrisaka rifle.

At work I have a large photo of him wearing his revolver in what is clearly a modified holster that has a single strap over the hammer securing it in place as compared to a flap - I had never seen this type of holster before and assumed it was something he had made up. Reading your comments about the fact the holsters didnt fit 6 inch barrelled revolvers this now makes a lot of sense.

Mike,

What a marvelous piece of history! From the thoroughness of your report, I'm sure that you have had Maj. Hoffe document his service. All of that deserves to be preserved for the future generations.

Please express our appreciation to Maj. Hoffe for his role in seeing that we all can study the German and Japanese languages as an elective if we choose. On this side, we can't forget that our Allies were also a part of the "Greatest Generation"!

Bob

Mike-

I got the photos to enlarge a little today, and the plane looks like a MK V with the Vokes air filter under the chin. (The plane with the pilot probably is a MK VIII or IX.)

I'm guessing that it was photographed in N. Africa, if the squadron had MK VIII's in India. The latter was preferable, being rated at slightly over 400 MPH, with the MK V at about 360 MPH, and the newer plane had a higher ceiling, I think, and could climb and dive faster, although it still coudn't outturn the agile Jap fighters. These would have been mainly Oscars, the Ki-43, although Navy Zeros might have been in the area at times. Some were based in Thailand and occasionally moved into Burma.

I realize that the B-29 heavy bomber was a USAAF plane, and my father helped to build them before he was drafted. It is true that Allied bombers sometimes had overeager gunners, and escort aircraft had to be alert to avoid their fire. This happened in all theaters of the war. But the case I cited in the South Pacific was definitely Naval fighters going after other Allied planes so often that the NZ outfit, maybe some Aussies,too, actually painted the rear half of their fuselages white! I don't think US P-40's were so painted, but were probably attacked by the sailors.

Why? A P-40 doesn't look like any Japanese aircraft, although a P-39 might in the heat of battle be confused with a Tony, I suppose. And a Spitfire doesn't look much like any Japanese plane other than maybe a Tony, either. Obviously, some paople needed to be better at target identification. (The Tony was a Japanese modification of the German ME-109 theme, using a ME-109 engine.)

The problem was severe enough that when Gen. James Doolittle flew over the invasion beaches in Normandy on D-Day, he flew a P-38 Lightning, as the twin boom fuselage was so distinctive that he was unlikely to be shot at by our side.

I think the most likely Allied plane to be shot at by our bomber crews was the P-51 Mustang, Mustang III and IV in RAF service. Until the P-51D replaced earlier marks, some said that it resembled an ME-109 too closely for comfort. I'm hoping that the large clear canopy of the P-51D/Mustang IV made it more distinctive.

I'd like to see the holster that you described. It sounds as if it may be an enlisted man (Other Ranks) leather holster for the MK VI Webley. Does it have a place for a cleaning rod on it? The S&W .38 would be a loose fit, but the barrel length would be right. The retaining strap might hold the gun tightly enough in place that it wouldn't move around, wearing the gun's finish. By WW II, in that theater, the fact that he wore an enlisted man's holster might not have mattered too much.

I have a big book on Spitfires that has a Far East chapter, and it shows pilots walking across a muddy field. But they have the usual canvas webbling holsters. One looks long enough to be for the MK VI .455, but the view is from the front, the gun flapping a bit from motion.

I read that the Indian AF issued some Colt M-1917 .45's, probably rushed initially to the UK in 1940. Don't know if S&W M-1917's were included in that batch. If anyone knows more, please comment. That was def. the Indian AF, not the RAF or SAAF.

Texas Star,

When I get to work tomorrow I will post the holster photo - I think you can tell what a joker he is by his face in the photo.

I think he admits it was probably his fault at being shot down by the B29. A flight of them drifted into his patrol sector and as he had not seen one before he decided to fly much closer for a better look.... I am sure it seemed like a good idea at the time ... !

OK I must admit posting this on this site full of people who really know what they are talking about has helped me immensely in getting to understand the history behind this revolver and focus my research and basically stop jumping to conclusions and start looking at the detail.

The photo below is of an RAF officer wearing his wings and has what appears to be a S&W in a customised open top holster. The chap he is with appears to be an Army officer judging by his shirt, army type epaulets and pistol/revolver lanyard - this photo came with the provenance of the gun that I have also posted below. I immediately jumped to the conclusion that Maj Hoffe is the chap on the left in the RAF officers uniform carrying the revolver - after all this photo was part of the provenance that came with the gun and I know that other nations pilots serving with the RAF wore RAF uniform.

It would now appear that I am wrong, by blowing up other photos from the Squadron gallery on the 152 Sdn website and comparing his face it would appear Maj Hoffe is actually the chap on the right with the pistol lanyard and not the RAF officer on the left I assumed him to be. I have attached another photo of Maj Hoffe by his aircraft and even though its quite small its actually quite clear that he is the same person as the officer on the right.

Sadly you can't see the revolver in his holster as its out of the camera shot. However the RAF officer clearly has a S&W as well and I assume (another mistake ??) that it is a 6 inch barrelled gun as the holster is not standard issue.

Thanks for all your help everyone in making me look closer to distinguish the facts from the romance linked to this guns history !!

Provenance that came with the revolver:

SMITH & WESSON
A .38 'MILITARY & POLICE HAND EJECTOR' SIX-SHOT DOUBLE-ACTION SERVICE REVOLVER, serial no. 700701,
6in. barrel, the frame marked 'R.A.F.', the barrel, frame and cylinder retaining much original blued finish, trigger and hammer retaining much original case-hardened finish, chequered wooden grips and lanyard ring.

Provenance: This revolver was issued to Lt. Harry Hoffe of the South African Air Force in July 1941 by the RAF when he was seconded to 274 fighter squadron in the Western Desert. It was worn throughout his operational flying in the desert, Sicily, Italy, India and Burma. Whilst it was never fired in anger or defence it was used to great effect against a green mamba snake (and a noisy gekko) It did provide a sense of security, especially when flying over the Japanese held jungles of Burma.

Hoffe's Hurricane was shot down on 1st December 1941 in the desert when a single bullet hit his glycol tank causing the engine to catch fire. He bailed out and was rescued by his flight commander who picked him up and flew back to base with the pair of them crammed into the cockpit of his single seat Hurricane.

Changing to Spitfires for operational duties in Burma, Hoffe was shot down again on 6th September 1944, this time by the U.S.A.F. Whilst on escort duties covering DC3's making a supply drop, a single B29 Superfortress strayed into the patrol area. Not having encountered one of these new bombers before, Hoffe approached the bomber out of curiosity when the top-gunner opened fire on him. Two bullets hit the Spitfire, one striking the armour plating behind his seat, the other hitting the petrol tank. Hoffe was quickly drenched in petrol and made a hasty retreat to the recently liberated Tamu airstrip where he made a wheels up landing. Fortunately the strip was submerged in about 6 inches of monsoon rain water which was ideal given that one spark from a dry ground landing would have ignited the whole plane. Major Hoffe, DFC, is still waiting for an apology from the B29 gunner.

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Errors and controversy...

Before 1947, the US Air Force was part of the Army and was called the Air Corps or the US Army Air Force. (USAAF) An easy correction to make.


The Green Mamba (Dendraspis angusticeps, if memory serves) is native to sub-Saharan Africa. This would encompass Maj. Hofffe's country, but probably not North Africa, let alone Italy or Burma. If he shot one with this revolver, the story begs telling. This is a largely arboreal elapid snake, known for quickness and very deadly venom, about 20 mg. of which is fatal to most adult humans. There are two subspecies, one a western form.

(Lucky you:I have a considerable interest in venomous snakes.)

Finally, I think the top turret and tail guns of a B-29 were remotely controlled, the gunner sitting inside the fuselage, not in a turret, which was solid, unlike most. The gunner may never have seen the Spitfire well. Some electronic gubbins or radar may have told him that a fighter was approaching, in an area where the B-29 crew had not been told to expect an escort. Hoffe was probably headed nose-in, which would look like an attack. Those bomber crews were paranoid, anyway.

I wish we could see the holster better. From the limited detail, it resembles one I saw in a photo of a member of the Long Range Desert Group. His gun was a S&W .38, but with five-inch barrel. It also had the later smooth walnut stocks.

If it wouldn't expose Maj. Hoffe to any retribution for keeping the gun, you might ask members of his squadron to recall their revolvers and the barrel length, if possible, and if they ever used them. Shooting a green mamba was a very interesting use.

What an awesome story.

Mike-

Can you ask him how many rounds he was issued? I've read that normal revolver ammo issue was just 12 cartridges per man. British officers in North Africa complained about this in their books, one man scrounging a few extra rounds from his general, who was using a different sidearm than the issued .38. The man wanting extra ammo was a staff officer and a member of Parliament! His book is, "The Golden Carpet", in case you might find a copy.

A South African army major serving in the Royal Tank Regiment wrote, "Brazen Chariots", in which he several times mentioned his .38, but didn't identify the make or model. He did fire the gun at enemy troops from the turret of his Stuart/Honey tank. His name was Robert Crisp, and I think he received the DSO. I'd have to dig out the book and check. Alas, he was seriously wounded, losing a close friend who was sitting next to him when a German shell hit his tank.

Most other handgun useage that I've encountered in books about that war was by paratroops or commandos, and they seem to have been furnished with more ammo, probably because they were more likely to use sidearms in battle. They often had 9mm Brownings or Colt .45 autos, not .38's, too. SAS men carried whatever they wanted back then, whether of Allied or enemy origin.

I did read an account of a man who had to trek out of the Burmese jungle with Japanese after him, and he had a Colt Official Police .38--200. That's in "The Hundred Days of Lt. MacHorton" if you want to seek it out. He left a Thompson gun behind due to weight, I think, and wore just the .38 and a Ghurka khukri knife. Pretty sure about the Tommy gun, and certain about the Colt .38, but haven't read the book in ages.

Does anyone else know of any wartme accounts of Commonwealth authors who mentioned their sidearms? Especially if they were aircrew?

LATER: I found Maj. Crisp's book. He did indeed receive the Distinguished Service Order (just beneath the Victoria Cross) and the Military Cross. A brave man!

Mike I have read through this..thanks for sharing your link with my gun from the same time period. How did you come to get all this info? It fabulous. Was the gun in the family? I have no delusion of getting any kind of provenance from mine. I somehow missed your link to the gun and the pilot.
Mike

__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Major Harry Hoffe DFC is still living in South Africa. He will be 97 at then next of next Month, January 2014. He remembers the war well. He told me a while back about his gun, which he sold after the war had ended. He said the only thing he ever shot with it was a rat. If you still have in unanswered questions on his gun let me know and I could ask him for you. After the war Harry married Pauline. They had 4 children. Unfortunately Pauline passed away 7 years ago. Harry has 13 grandchildren and 7 great grandchildren, the 8th is due in May. I'm his oldest grandchild.

Major Harry Hoffe was part of SAAF but after The Battle of Britain the RAF were short of men and so Harry was sent to fight with them. Harry's parents were both Irish and come to live in South Africa as the weather conditions were better for his father's health. His father had Asthma.

How nice of you to post! I have an interest in South Africa, which few Americans do. I'd venture to say that about 99% of my countrymen today don't even know who Jan Smuts was! Let alone that Gov. Simon van der Stel began growing wine grapes at Constantia in 1655! The best known South Africans here are probably the Academy Award winning actress (Best Actress for, "Monster") Charlize Theron and a model named Candice Swanepoel. Candice is from Mooi River, Natal. I suppose that one could joke that she is a Mooi Meisie in two senses of the word! Theron was from the high Transvaal; I forget the name of the town. ("Mooi Meisie" means Pretty Girl in Afrikaans.)

I'd thought that Hoffe was an Afrikaans (Dutch-derived) name.
How interesting that he is of Irish descent!

When did he sell this gun? Do you know who made the claim that it'd killed a Green Mamba? If you've seen them even in zoos, you know that they are usually very alert and quick. It'd take luck and skill to kill an aggressive one with a handgun. I've seen the Green,Black, and (I think) the Jameson's mambas in zoos. Beautiful snakes, if quite lethal.

On behalf of all Americans, I'll apologize to Harry for the B-29 gunner who nailed his Spitfire. The poor gunner probably saw a fighter headed in on the B-29 where he hadn't been told to expect Allied fighters and mistook it for a Kawanishi Ki-61 "Tony", a Jap version of the ME-109. Mustangs were also mistaken for ME-109's, mainly the earlier P-51B and C (Mustang II and III in RAF service). When the later Mustang IV/P-51D got the large, clear canopy like that of the Hawker Tempest, the resemblance to a Messerschmidt was less.

Did Harry know RAF pilot "Ginger" Lacey? Lacey nailed a Japanese plane one day with just eight 20mm shells. When he was havng a drink in the officers' club later, his armorer came in and asked, "Sir, are you sure that you got that Jap? You fired just eight shells!" Lacey looked surprised and quipped, "What? As many as that?!"

Did Harry ever fight Japanese planes? What and how often? For what was he awarded the DFC? He must be a living treasure trove of history! As a former US airman, I salute him for his honorable service in such trying times. Any chance that the two of you could write a book or at least a magazine article on his servce and memories of various aircraft and duty stations? Do you read magazines like Air Classics or Fly Past ?

Does he recall whether all or most pilots carried Smith & Wesson .38 's? What other sidearms did he see in use? I know of two RAF pilots who carried a Beretta .32 and a P-08 Luger. (They scrounged them from Intelligence officers who had a stock of captured pistols from downed German aircrew.) The Luger man was shot down over German-occupied Denmark and the Jerries were not amused that he had a Luger. But their abuse seems to have been limited to verbal actrvity, not physical. He was flying a Mosquito when he got jumped by several FW-190's. He was a highly decorated officer and the Germans were happy to have him in the bag. Thankfully, this happened late in the war.

Thanks again for posting, and the best to you and to Harry. Sorry again for that B-29 gunner. I suspect that the RAF sent a pretty tart message to the B-29 base about that. Still, the poor gunner surely fired in good faith that he saw an enemy plane. There is less excuse for US Navy pilots who often fired on USAAF and Royal New Zealand Air Force P-40's over Guadalcanal. The RNZAF pilots got so upset over that they had the rear half of their fuselages painted white to distinguish them, and the danged sailors still shot at them! It seems to me that if a man is smart enough and has good enough vision to fly from an aircraft carrier that he ought to be able to distinguish friendly aircraft from enemy!

Great thread! Whenever I handle a surplus weapon, I think, "If only it could talk"! This and the thread about the Navy Victory gun are the next best think. Thanks for sharing the fruit of your search.
----
On the subject of aircraft markings and recognition, the US briefly had a red outline of the national 'Star and Bar' in 1943, but apparently even that hint of red was too much.
Due to recognition problems, P-51B and C aircraft had broad recognition stripes painted on wings and horizontal stabilizers (not to be confused with the black and white 'invasion stripes').

P-47s and Spitfires also had distinctive curved wings. If they had to approach bombers, they would flip up on a wing to let the gunners see them. Presumably the Mustangs would do the same to show stripes and insignia. Germans, being smart, tried to copy the move and quickly attack while gunners were distracted.
Needless to say, paranoia was a survival requirement for bomber crews; not being trigger-happy could make them dead.

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Registration? NEVER!

Very sad to report that the original owner of this revolver died last week aged 97….. one of the few that could remind us of what that era was really like. Only a very few now remain. His memory will remain with his sidearm.

Very sadly I had only just finished an email to his granddaughter Se.Mac who posted on this thread and also emailed me in January 2014 after seeing this thread on this forum and inviting me to write and ask her questions she could put to Maj. Hoffe.

One of my lifes greatest regrets will be not replying sooner before his passing so we could converse. I hope he passed peacefully. He had truly earnt the right to a peaceful life and his friends had paid the ultimate price to provide us the freedom we enjoy today.

Rest in Peace Major Harry Hoffe, South African Air Force, Distinguished Flying Cross, Mk 1 Hurricane pilot in 274 Sdn RAF North Africa 1941, shot down on the 1st December 1941, and 152 Sdn RAF Mk9 and Mk 8 spitfires, North Africa, Sicily, Italy and Burma, Commanding officer of 152 Sdn and shot down by friendly fire in Burma 1944. Awarded the DFC in 1945.

I will not forget.

Attached Images

Major_Harry_Hoffe_DFC__RIP__24.05.14.jpg (276.2 KB, 75 views)

Amen, Bettis 1; I couldn't have said it better. Unbelievable historical and provenance importance to this revolver. Maj Harry Hoffe was a brave man.

Screw in that mainspring strain screw and it willl inprove trigger pull. Loctite will hold it in position.

I realize this is an old thread, but I just found it and read through it for the first time tonight. Very interesting! I'm an Air Force vet (Vietnam) and my dad served in the ETO and Korea.
He flew P-38s in Europe and one day, while escorting a wave of B-17s over the channel, he was flying in the 7:00 o'clock position of a bomber when suddenly the tail gunner started shooting at him. He peeled off to the left to avoid and was not hit. He thinks the poor guy went to sleep, woke up to see a fighter and just pulled the trigger! I doubt it was a recognition problem at all - just instinctive, nervous reaction.
A few weeks later (June 14, 1944), Dad was shot down by flak near Paris on a rail interdiction mission. He spent 9 months as a guest of the Germans.

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Major Hoffe's funeral is tomorrow afternoon (2/6/14) Granddad was surrounded by his family as he passed away of old age. This all happened very suddenly, however, we knew the day would come soon. I believe Harry wrote a few letters about the war and one was about his gun. I will try find it and pass on the info. You welcome to still send me that email. I will see if I can answer any of your questions.

Mike.45, How did you hear of Harry's passing? I think we could be following the same facebook pages.

I may contact you to ask much what I have here. What is the e-mail address? PM me on this board if you prefer. I may also ask a question or two about the Oscar Pistorious trial. We seem not to be getting any new details, and some of what the prosecution must have said was not reported here.

Thanks for your interest.

What a great gun, story, and man. Thank you for sharing all three with us.

This thread is a shining example of the reason (among many others) of my being a member of this forum.

A heartfelt thank you for all involved in sharing the information, and a prayer for the family, friends, and fellow warriors of Major Hoffe.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

Se.Mac, I was so so sorry to hear of your Grandathers loss. I regularly look at the 152 Sdn Hyderabad website and saw the announcement. I almost finished the email in the last few weeks as well.

Many thanks for saying I can still contact you, I will email you in the next few days. My heart felt condolences.

Mike