38/44 McGivern Model a.k.a. 5” Outdoorsman

Up until recently I would have said that there wasn't such a thing as a 5" 38/44 Outdoorsman . . . but I would have been wrong. Even before there was a 38/44 Outdoorsman, a special ordered 5" 38/44 Heavy Duty Police Target was reported back in 2008 by Mr. Heavy Duty "1Aspenhill".
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...lice-target-special-production-variation.html

The standard 6 ½" 38/44 Outdoorsman came along in 1931 and for a short time thereafter a small number of Outdoorsman Models were produced with a 5" barrel . . . many with a McGivern gold bead on a 1/8" Patridge front sight blade. A very special pair was showcased in this thread from the collection of Mike Priwer.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/276816-pair-pre-ww2-38-44-5-targets.html

I took my recently acquired McGivern Model to Tulsa for its debut at Saturday evening's "show & tell" thinking it was pretty special and rare. Well, it is . . . but where else than at the Tulsa gun show could one find not one but two others . . . both of which were for sale no less!

This one was shipped June 18, 1934 to the Seattle Hardware Company but the provenance is still a work in progress. With the help of Bill Cross and the S&W Historical Foundation, the invoice and correspondence from McDonald & Linforth (S&W west coast factory representatives) indicate that eight 5" 38/44 Targets were in the shipment and that they . . . along with 48 other revolvers . . . were "for the Police Department and Revolver Clubs in and around the Seattle area".

With the assistance of the curator of the Seattle Metropolitan Police Museum (including King County) we are looking for a picture of the Seattle Police Revolver Club's eight-member pistol team from the 30s. Hopefully I'll learn what kind of grips were used because the original numbered stocks were obviously used very little. The Seattle Police Revolver Club was incorporated in 1943 as the Seattle Police Athletic Association.

Hope you enjoy the pictures.















Russ

Russ, That is a unique gun. I appreciate you sharing it with us here on the forum and it was especially nice seeing it in person at the Southwest Bunch meeting.

Chad

Now I am envious all over again, but that doesn't affect my delight that you found one of these rare and amazing McGivern ODs and added it to your collection. Congratulations!

I am not aggressively searching for a 5" McGivern OD, but if I stumble across one I will probably pounce without much reflection. There are lots of models I thought I would never have a chance to add to my safe, but a few of them have come my way anyway. There is always hope.

Wonderful revolver. Again, congratulations.

You have certainly acquired a wonderful and worthy revolver.
Would it be kosher to inquire as to the asking price for the two McGivern's for sale? I know that condition is everything but I am curious?
Thanks,
Steve

SDH said:

. . . Would it be kosher to inquire as to the asking price for the two McGivern's for sale? I know that condition is everything but I am curious?

Click to expand...

Steve,

I would defer to the sellers . . . even if I could remember the price on the tags. Both had a higher % of original finish than mine (estimated at 75%).

If you'll send me a PM I'll share the names of the sellers.

Russ

Russ, thanks, not really important, just curious...

I sure like yours! My 5" HD is great, but the target sights and provenance put the McG in a very special category.

Russ...very nice!!!!

Bill

Great find, Russ. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Jerry

That is a very nice and rare gun! The grips are exceptional when you look at them up close. Russ, Bob Bettis and I have had some spirited discussions on the 5" Outdoorsman which was a special order gun. It appears that when Ed McGivern ordered what was probably the first 5" Outdoorsman with his McGivern Gold Bead front sight, the factory dubbed it as the "McGivern" Model. However, there are instances where a 5" Outdoorsman with a patridge front sight was also called a McGivern Model. My opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, is that any 5" Outdoorsman is a McGivern Model as they were special order items and maybe you did not like the McGivern Gold Bead front sight and wanted a different one-wouldn't you be like Ed and ordering a S&W like you wanted it? Let's get your opinions in here!

Russ,

Great gun! Congratulations on joining a pretty small congregation of very happy owners.

I have to agree with Bill that the requirements to be a "McGivern Model" are the 5" barrel and the target sights. Apparently there are examples of them that both had and did not have the gold McGovern bead and with and without the grooved back strap.

We await Roy's comments.

Sorry I missed seeing your gun and everyone in Tulsa. I look forward to seeing it in KC.

Bob

Nice revolver.... very special

I used to be part of the McGivern club, however I sold mine a few years back. Not sure what I was thinking now that I reflect on it, but then again - you cannot own them all, nor own them forever... It's in a good home now...



8/22/2022 - update with pic after losing all my previous Fototime pics...!!

I think I'm sunk. You know how you get a tune in your head and it just keeps replaying for days? I've got a little voice going that says "McGivern OD, McGivern OD, McGivern OD..."

I'm going to try a couple of glasses of a decent Cabernet in a another half hour, but I don't think that is likely to fix the problem.

I have an early 6.5" OD that had a McGivern bead added to it at some point, but it's just not not the same. If I get a true McGivern model, I'll be able to shoot as well as he did, right?

SmithNut said:

I used to be part of the McGivern club, however I sold mine a few years back. Not sure what I was thinking now that I reflect on it, but then again - you cannot own them all, nor own them forever... It's in a good home now...

Click to expand...

Smithnut,

Thank you for sharing not only an outstanding example . . . but another of the eight in the same shipment to Seattle Hardware June 18, 1934!

Russ

very nice, thanks for sharing!

Nice gun Russ, you seem to find unique variations of S&W's. Speaking of 5" bbl's, did you ever shoot the K-22 Bowen made for you? Larry

Jebus35745 said:

Nice gun Russ, you seem to find unique variations of S&W's. Speaking of 5" bbl's, did you ever shoot the K-22 Bowen made for you? Larry

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Thanks . . . haven't shot the 5" K-22 yet but hope to soon now that Spring has arrived.

Russ

I am quite late to this party but just found this thread this morning. I was particularly interested in the comments regarding the variations available in the "McGivern Model."




I purchased this revolver from our forum host at the SWCA Annual Meeting in Kansas City. It was the first McGivern Model Outdoorsman Revolver I had ever seen. I thought it to be in very decent condition and the grips were numbered to the gun.




Both the front strap and back strap are grooved on my gun.




Part of the discussion that Lee and I had while I was purchasing the revolver was the absence of a gold bead front sight. I had always heard that McGivern Models had a gold bead front sight. Viewing the the standard post sight on this gun through a loupe makes it obvious that the sight on the gun is original. You can see marks made during the original fitting match up where the blade is inserted into it's mount.

No information on this revolver could be located through the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation. After viewing these images, Roy addressed the absence of the gold bead sight in his letter.



I was very happy to run across this thread as I did not know for certain if all McGiverns were supposed to have gold bead front sights or if a 5" pre-war Outdoorsman without a gold bead front sight was in fact a McGivern Model?

I have also wondered just how many McGivern Models were manufactured. I have heard "less than 200" but don't know how close is close. Maybe with the records scanned a total could be approximated. But, then again, there was no record of this gun in the records available to the Historical Foundation.

It's often said, Never say never regarding Smith & Wesson.

I have been sidetracked with taking care if Dad for awhile and have done no shooting at all. I'm looking forward to loading some ammunition on the Star machine and shooting this revolver. I have always been partial to 5" N frames. I got hooked on Skeeter Skelton at an early age and still have the 5" 27-2 I received as my nineteenth Christmas gift from my parents. I had a 1950 Target .44 Special that lettered that it's 5' tube was indeed correct. Unfortunately that one and a 5" 29-2 were both sold in order to fund the purchase a gun that I cannot now remember.

Regards.

Bob Horton
#2170

I am not schooled on this question. So here I go. If you took this 5", and modified the cylinder to accept 357 mag. do I have a Registersd Magnum?
Just asking, so dont throw stones.

gmborkovic said:

I am not schooled on this question. So here I go. If you took this 5", and modified the cylinder to accept 357 mag. do I have a Registersd Magnum?
Just asking, so dont throw stones.

Click to expand...

Not quite.



Here is a Registered Magnum. Beside the metallurgy and heat treating involved, notice the ribbed barrel on the Registered Magnum. There would also be dimensional differences in barrel thickness and cylinder length.

Regards.

Bob Horton
#2170

I haven't revisited this thread since it was new and missed the fact that questions were arising about sight variations in the prewar five-inch ODs. Here's an example of one with a Call bead front sight. The Call configuration is mentioned in the letter.



This particular revolver has some interesting modifications that I won't go into here, but anyone who is curious can read about them in this other old thread:

A King-Marked McGivern Outdoorsman with Shortened Hammer Throw