Wondering about a 1953 Kit Gun I saw yesterday? very unusual sights?

[big_gus]

Yesterday at one of the FleaMarkets they have twice a year, I seen a Model of 1953 (3 screw) 4 inch Kit Gun Round Butt that made me scratch my head. Please bear with me with my description, I have no pics. Serial Number was 38,XXX (I'm guessing what 1956-1957?). The gun had a lot of "honest wear" but not abused any. I would rate condition around the 92%-93% neighborhood. Nice Original Diamond grips from the time period (didn't take off to see if matched but figured they did). The thing which was so unusual was the sights, especially the front sight. The front sight looked like a regular sight of a model 34/pre-34, BUT at the top of it it had a little tiny round dome which came up with a gold bead on the front. It definitely wasn't a Call front sight. The top of the sight kinda reminded me of the sight on my Marlin 1894 Cowboy limited (but smaller) or a lot like my grooved receiver Winchester model 61, just with a little round gold bead of the front. The rear sight was the standard style EXCEPT the BLADE had a perfect V cut in it instead of the "U". I looked closely at the front sight and could not tell any modifications. I just had never encountered one like that I can remember. The price was $700 which would have been firm with this guy, no box of course so I passed (I am a condition collector anyway) and did some research last night with no luck. I started to go back today and take pics and get his number but it was pouring down rain all day. I will see this guy in the future and could probably even round up his number through my buddies if needed. I would have went ahead and bought it as a shooter/interesting piece if it was about 150-200 less. I know this is a tough question without pics, but Any thoughts, special order sights or aftermarket/modified sights? Thanks.

[murphydog]

Are you describing a Patridge front blade with the "round dome" on top, or a thinner base with a larger rounded top and gold bead facing the rear sight? The latter sounds like a Marble's front. In any case, it is not a standard rear sight blade of the era with a V notch.

[DCWilson]

A V-notch rear sight definitely sounds like a custom creation to me. If the gold bead you describe is like a Call bead sight, but with a domed gold bead instead of just a gold plug set flat to the vertical surface of the blade, that is a McGivern bead sight. Or if I am misunderstaning your description and the bead is an actual narrow cylinder along the entire top of the front sight, that sounds like a Sheard or Marble sight as Alan said.

This is a McGivern-style bead sight (but a little larger than a true McGivern bead) on an N-frame target revolver from the 1930s. Like this? Or something else?

[big_gus]

Originally Posted by DCWilson

A V-notch rear sight definitely sounds like a custom creation to me. If the gold bead you describe is like a Call bead sight, but with a domed gold bead instead of just a gold plug set flat to the vertical surface of the blade, that is a McGivern bead sight. Or if I am misunderstaning your description and the bead is an actual narrow cylinder along the entire top of the front sight, that sounds like a Sheard or Marble sight as Alan said.

This is a McGivern-style bead sight (but a little larger than a true McGivern bead) on an N-frame target revolver from the 1930s. Like this? Or something else?

Yes it definitely Wasn't like that. It was the standard RAMP style front sight of a model 34, but but at the top of the sight instead of having the standard top, it thinned down then went into a little round long style (exactly like the top part of the front sight on a model 61 Winchester) with a little tiny gold bead on the front. Also the sight was taller with this than a regular ramp sight. I know my explanation is a little confusing and I apologize for that, I just don't know a better way to describe it.

[DCWilson]

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds to me as though that is a completely customized sighting system on that revolver. It sure doesn't match anything that I have ever seen and considered standard or optional on S&Ws.

[Hondo44]

big gus,
A neat setup. Similar to the early pre war 22/32 Heavy Frame Targets (Bekeart models). But they didn't have a ramp under the bead sight.

Sounds like a horizontal cylindrical piece with the bead on the back end soldered on top of the ramp front sight. The cylindrical part must be pretty short if the ramp sight still has its full height because it almost comes to a point at the top. The original front sight blade is retained with a pin to the barrel rib. So I can understand the original blade being removed, modified and re-pinned back into the rib.

The rear V notch blade is a simple swap with the original sq notch blade.

[big_gus]

Originally Posted by DCWilson

Thanks for the feedback. It sounds to me as though that is a completely customized sighting system on that revolver. It sure doesn't match anything that I have ever seen and considered standard or optional on S&Ws.

Yeah that's kinda what I figured. Who ever done it definetly done it years and years ago according to the wear and looks of it. Thanks guys for your help!
The reason I asked is a couple years ago I passed on a minty extremely RARE piece because I didn't know what it was at the time because of all the "unusual features"... Thanks Again.

[Hondo44]

So it had a front sight like these but with the little tube and bead stuck on top?
Did the ramp sight still have the serrations on the ramp edge?

[big_gus]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

So it had a front sight like these but with the little tube and bead stuck on top?
Did the ramp sight still have the serrations on the ramp edge?

Yes it was the standard ramp like those with serrations, but about 2/3 of the way up, it turned into a sight virtually identical to this one in David Wilson's 38/44 in post #14 (awesome gun by the way!)
"New" .38-44 Outdoorsman

Of course it was smaller (scaled down) and shorter I'm sure since that is an N frame. There was no pin either I could see where the top part pinned into the ramp. It was really nice looking, I didn't have a magnifying glass, but I could see no modications by the naked eye. Whoever done it was a pro, wasn't anything done by "Bubba" for sure.

[Hondo44]

Awesome, I love pristine collectibles, but I also like tasteful period modifications of expert quality as you describe on that little beauty. 39926 shipped 1/59 but 40116 shipped in 56, so you're probably right on the date, although they jumped around a bit as you can see.

I would have grabbed it as a shooter for the novelty and workmanship. I've seen lesser condition unmodified guns go for that price lately.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

The rear V notch blade is a simple swap with the original sq notch blade.

simple swap?
I've never seen a factory V notch on a post-war rear, so I would assume the rear blade was custom made also.

[Hondo44]

No, no factory 'V' rear blade that I know of either. But I had a King or Micro replacement 'u' notch blade filed to a 'V' notch in mind. True that would be custom made but quite simple. Less work than swapping the blade after filing the 'V' in it.