1950 Target and 1950 Heavy Duty? Reblued?

jhood001 · Jun 4, 2013

So I have two more S&Ws that I am trying to research and find homes for on behalf of my recently widowed friend. I believe I have them identified (key word is 'believe'), but I was told recently that they were both reblued!

First, the story -
I was meeting a very respectable dealer at an antique collector show in order to conduct some business on some double rifles. I thought I would bring these two S&Ws along to show them around and see what kind of offers I might get.

The individual I was there to meet had no interest in them being that he is strictly an SxS man, but he believed their finishes were original.

Then another gentlemen, who purchased S&Ws 'regularly for a friend' looked them over and told me that they had 'very careful reblue jobs' done on them and proceeded to offer me 500$ a piece for them.

One of the other members here encouraged me to bring them to the board, so here they are!

A few things to note beforehand -

I'm not an expert! My identification of these may be way off as I'm still learning! Please correct and enlighten me!
My goal is to find the best possible price for them in order to help out my friend. Any valuations you might provide would be greatly appreciated!

"Model of 1950 Target"

6.5"
.44 S&W Special
Serial s144743
Great fit on the grips, but the numbers don't match.
Fantastic bore

"38/44 Heavy Duty Model of 1950"
6.5"
.38 Special
Serial s123182
Grip numbers do not match
Again, another fantastic bore

Thank you for checking out my post. If a close-up or a shot of another area is needed, just point it out and I'll throw it up!

Have at it!

chud333 · Jun 4, 2013

Those look spot-on to me. I would say "no refinish" on either
but i am no expert. I'll give ya' 550 each for them as a one-up
from the other guy.
They both look correct.
Nice guns sir.

Chuck

STCM(SW) · Jun 4, 2013

I agree, both look like there org. blueing.

I would think 900-1K + each, but I'm a sucker for old S&W revolvers.....

bettis1 · Jun 4, 2013

Run, don't walk, away from the "Gentleman" who told you they were refinished and offered $500 each.

Those guns are wearing their original finish and in very nice shape. A minimum for each would be twice what he offered and in the right market, they could possibly bring three or more times that.

Excellent photos, by the way.

Bob

Masterpiece · Jun 4, 2013

jhood001,

I'm quite sure you can be well assured both of your Revolvers have their original finishes although you did misidentify the model of one of them!! Reason being, the one you stated was a 38/44 Heavy Duty Model of 1950 is actually a 38/44 Outdoorsman Model of 1950, or Pre-Model 23, given it has Target Sights rather than Service Sights that a Heavy Duty has!!

Both are Very Nice Revolvers worth "Considerably" more than the $500 Offer the so called "Gentleman"...Ha!!~Ha!!..tried to steal them for!!

crsides · Jun 4, 2013

Hard to tell a good reblue job from an original looking at pics. Need to see them in hand to be sure. BUT, I see no signs of a reblue on either one.

Charlie

gjamison · Jun 4, 2013

Look good to me. The 1950 44spl(pre model 24) looks like a 95%+ gun very very nice, value is north of $1500 or up.

The 38/44 Outdoorsmen or pre model 23 looks very good as well. The only thing wrong with it is the grips aren't correct. Value I would say $1200 to $1500

murphydog · Jun 4, 2013

Agree these do not appear refinished; the usual giveaways are rounded frame edges, a mismatch between the sideplate and frame due to separate polishing, blurry stampings, and often a "matching" hammer and trigger to the rest of the gun. Both of these were made in the era of factory matte blue, so perhaps someone took that as a sign of a redo, but they appear completely original minus the stocks.

The .44 probably shipped in 1955, and the .38/44 in 1954 according to the standard S & W reference.

Göring's S&W · Jun 4, 2013

Not that you need another confirmation, but I too think the finishes are original. Other signs of a reblue include bluing over pitting, and polished flat pins and studs. Very nice guns.

IMO, the guy who made the lower offer must have been tipped off by you that you were "researching" them for a friend, and that you probably did not know one way or another. He then attempted to "steal" them away from you by suggesting they were refinished, knowing that perhaps you would believe him since you were admittedly new to S&Ws, or at least post war 5 screw S&Ws. If he actually thought either was refinished, then he is probably clueless on this subject. Perhaps he is really sloppy with his buying and decision making when buying for the other guy, which is why they call that proposition a "moral hazard."

Values given have been fair. The 44 special is worth more, and they are harder to find. The original pair of grips for the 38 outdoorsman would look just like the pair on the 44, UNLESS it shipped with target grips. The grip style in photos for both guns is the magna grip. Both guns should have the earlier "diamond" magna which was discontinued around 1966 or so. You should verify the 38 outdoorsman will not accept 357 shells. Some were converted to do so since the frame (N frame) can handle 357 mags.

Fessor · Jun 4, 2013

I'm not an expert, but I'm in training to be one. From examining all the appropriate indicators, they do not appear to have been refinished. They look good to me ..... very good!

moosedog · Jun 4, 2013

My vote goes for being original finish on both of those and they are in very nice condition.

22hipower · Jun 4, 2013

Ditto on the comments above; both look like original finishes to me. I have the 44 with SN about 1000 earlier than this one and it looks just like your pictures. I wouldn't take less than $1500 for mine; not that it is for sale. I bought an Outdoorsman this past year which is also a little earlier than yours but is not in nearly as good condition and thought I got a good deal at $600. Yours ought to be worth around $1000.

glowe · Jun 4, 2013

I don't believe that the factory polished the metal as much as many I have seen that appear to be refinished. The factory jobs of your era all seem to have 2 characteristics that I look for. First, the stampings look very sharp with no beveled edges and actually I often see slightly raised edges on high condition original stampings. Second, besides the obvious wavy flats and rounded edges of many refiniehsed guns, you show the very light metal finishing marks under the blue which I think is characteristic of factory work from the 50s. Not overly polished or shiny. Nice pair!

bmg60 · Jun 4, 2013

Hi
I agree with ever body on the Original finish.
Price model 24 1400 to 1500 with correct number grips it would 1800
Model 23 1000 to 1150 with correct grips it would be 1400.
Jim Fisher

bettis1 · Jun 4, 2013

jhood001,

Now that we have pretty well addressed the originality and value of the guns, I'll speak to another point.

There are many different reasons why all of us buy and/or sell guns. All of the reasons may be valid for the person at that time. In your case and that of the individual who made the offer your two goals couldn't be further apart.

By his admission, he buys "regularly for a friend" so he may actually be a buyer/scout for a dealer, and as such he is motivated to find the least expensive guns that he can. You, on the other hand, are motivated to "find the best possible price for a friend".

Although there is nothing wrong with the buyer's motivation, you, however, are inspired by one of the most ethical situations that lots of us have also been faced with. I commend you for your efforts on behalf of your friend.

Bob

410bore · Jun 4, 2013

I will agree with everyone that has posted before me; The guns are NOT refinished, and they are worth 3x more than the offers you received!

I would suggest selling the guns here in the forums classifieds section that way the same honest people who gave you true values for your friends revolvers will have a chance to purchase them!

If you are not familiar with transacting firearms sales over the internet (i.e. receiving payment, shipping, licenses, etc.) I would be more than willing to walk you through the process, its really very simple......

Bill Bates · Jun 4, 2013

Add one more vote for original finish. Something I would look at very closely is the monogram on the sideplate. Guns of this vintage tend to have a slight raised displacement burr on the monograms. It is hard to see in the photos but does appear to present.

clang444 · Jun 4, 2013

Nice guns. Looks like the original finishes to me too. Most everyone here would live to add them to their collection. Bet you already have some PMs.

samandglove1 · Jun 4, 2013

Fabulous pair of revolvers and (from the pictures) absolutely original finish on both. If there was a modern gunsmith that could produce that kind of finish on older guns, he/she would be very busy (and profitable).

forindooruseonly · Jun 4, 2013

By his admission, he buys "regularly for a friend" so he may actually be a buyer/scout for a dealer, and as such he is motivated to find the least expensive guns that he can. You, on the other hand, are motivated to "find the best possible price for a friend".

Although there is nothing wrong with the buyer's motivation, you, however, are inspired by one of the most ethical situations that lots of us have also been faced with. I commend you for your efforts on behalf of your friend.

I'm glad you walked away and appreciate your efforts on behalf of your friend as well.

But, I see everything wrong with the buyer's motivations. If he is a scout for a dealer, he's trying to get them cheap enough to make it worth his time AND the dealer's time - there's no room for three in a bargain like a gun trade, so that means you know he's looking to screw someone over and it ain't going to be him or his "friend". Fine, whatever, I can live with that.

What I really have a problem with is that he told the OP that they were reblued - and tried to buy them at a price based on that lie. That, to me, is absolutely unethical. If he was knowledgeable, and I bet he was, he clearly saw to hard to find S&W revolvers possessed by someone who wasn't as knowledgeable as he was and he tried to steal them. Worse, he lied to do it.

People like that disgust me to my very core.

1950 Target and 1950 Heavy Duty? Reblued?

jhood001

Member

chud333

Member

STCM(SW)

US Veteran

bettis1

US Veteran

Masterpiece

Member

crsides

US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

gjamison

Member

murphydog

Moderator

Göring's S&W

Fessor

Member

moosedog

22hipower

glowe

US Veteran

bmg60

Member

bettis1

US Veteran

410bore

Member

Bill Bates

Member

clang444

US Veteran

samandglove1

Member

forindooruseonly

Member

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