Question on Cutting Down the Barrel on a M1917

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VictorSeven

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I have a M1917 in good condition. I would like to shorten the barrel as much as possible. My question is what would happen if I cut it down so that the lug under the barrel were removed?

I would have to keep the ejector plunger assembly intact since that is part of the lockup (Technically this is the 'center rod' and the 'ejector plunger'); I could shorten it no more than this. I have tried the action while holding the locking bolt in the under barrel lug forward so that it is not in play (technically this is the "locking bolt" with the "locking bolt spring"). There doesn't seem to be any difference in the lockup, cylinder rotation or timing.

I am hesitant to do this. The part that I would remove includes the "locking bolt" and I would not want to blithely remove this if it means that the function would be compromised and I would be left with a set of parts and a frame which would be useless. So I am asking has anyone done this sort of modification before or seen a 1917 so modified? Did the revolver still function?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
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I'm assuming you realize a modification such as you contemplate would substantially lower the value of an original M1917 revolver.

Having said that, surplus .38S&W M&P British service revolvers frequently had their barrels shortened by the importer to eliminate the ejector rod lug (which substantially lowered their value as well) and they apparently still function.
 
"I have a M1917 in good condition. I would like to shorten the barrel as much as possible."

In good condition and you want to butcher it? To make it into what, a huge and heavy snubby?

I can't offer any advice on this project other than to say don't do it. You want a short barrel revolver there are plenty you can buy.
 
What is the condition of the gun? If its 90%+ don't cut down the barrel.

1917's are very collectible and sought after.
 
Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! That kind of butchery was done to British Service Revolvers (.38 S&W) after WWII. In fact, Lee Harvey Oswald shot Dallas PD officer Tippit with a WWII .38 S&W cut down snub. I've never seen a 1917 that was butchered this way, but I have no doubt someone stupid has tried it. The cylinder can easily be misaligned without forward support. It's bad enough with a 158 gr. bullet, much less a 230 gr. one. Yes, the revolver will still function. But, it's your life. I wouldn't do it.

You didn't ask, but these old .45s are appreciating now as opposed to a few years ago. Why destroy any collector value by cutting the barrel. If it is in good condition, as you say, sell it to a collector and buy a short barrelled thunder cannon.

(Edit: I see you got advice from the sages while I was typing.)
 
Welcome to the forum and check your private messages.
 
Thank You for the Quick Replies

Dear All,

Thank you for your quick replies. Wiregrassguy's response clarifies the issue, the lack of forward support leads to misalignment. So the project is shelved.

I would like to explain what my thinking was in this matter. N.F. Strebe offered 1917 Colts with a two-inch barrel in (IIRC) both ACP and Long Colt. The work was done in-house, not by Colt. These were advertised back in the fifties in the "American Rifleman". They looked like a Detective Special on steroids. I was wondering if one could do this with a S&W given the better action and trigger.

This gun is about 75 to 80 per cent overall, most of it is clean and borders on very good but there are scattered areas of splotchy, worn finish and pitting. Just for the record, I would not take a revolver that was 90 per cent or better and make major modifications. In any case, the point about maintaining its value and collectibility is well taken.
 
Hello Victor, The idea of a shortened '17 appeals to many people. {Do Belly Guns search here} I'll tell you how I did with my '17. I was circling at a gun show and found a
Brazilian replacement barrel made for the '37. I cut it to 4 in and saved the original. Plus the replacement barrel was much better for shooting cast bullets { deeper grooves} Been working fine for many years.
 
I'll avoid the collector value issue as that has been addressed and it not my thing anyway. Fighting guns are not the same as collector's items, and almost every gun I own could be used for personal defense or LE duty if I needed to.

I would not go shorter than the amount that leaves all of the forward support in place. I'm guessing that this is 3-3.5 inches. One option could be to swap the original barrel with some other N frame barrel, and keep the original, but that might be silly. Dunno. For me, the problem would be that the fixed sights are too hard to see due to age and a couple of other issues impacting my already crummy vision. That means a more visible front sight (I'm a fan of the XS big dot for many such firearms), and likely the addition of a good visible fixed rear (Bowen or C&S, probably).

That's starting to look at a lot of money when you get done with all the work (most barrels will be in a smaller caliber, so it would have to be bored out to be useable if you swap); sights, finish. I have taken a silly expensive path with one revolver, and love the way that revolver shoots, but from an objective viewpoint, I should have waited for one of the relatively rare guns that resembled what I wanted in a factory configuration. Even at some horrid price, it would have been less than half of what I paid.
 
If you do cobble together the parts to do the project, a front lock can be easily installed by a gunsmith into the crane/yoke recess with a ball bearing that is staked into the frame and a divot milled into the yoke for them to mate. That would be pretty much what the new X frame has for a front lock up. It was a very popular addition to help keep cylinders in proper line with the bore back several years ago.
 
Thanks Again

Dear River Salmon, Thanks for the link to "Belly Guns". The link for "Pawn Shop Colt 1917" looks promising to make a copy of the NF Strebe guns.

Dear Doug M and Gun 4 Fun, Thanks for the advice.

Good luck to all.
 
Or you could find a reasonably priced 22-4 if a 4" barrel is short enough. There's also 45acp Night Guards floating around out there as well unless a more vintage look is desired.
 
Victor,

Welcome to the forum.

Your last description of your gun indicates to me that the collectability value in it is all but gone except as a shooter. So I wouldn't hesitate to make a barrel change, and here's how I would do it:

I would keep your original serial number matching barrel unmodified and save it away to be replaced on the gun anytime later on or to sell it.

Get another 1917 barrel and cut it right in front of the locking lug, you'd have a 3" or take off the front half of the lug, shorten the locking bolt and have a 2 3/4" barrel.

Finally, you can cut another 1/2" off the threaded end and extend the threads. That's the maximum you could cut and still have a slight shoulder on the barrel where it meets the frame. That would give you a pretty short 2 1/4" barrel and you'd retain the locking lug!

Save your original Extractor rod and center pin, and acquire another full length rod and pin to shorten to match your modified barrel. You'll need a pre war one with right hand threads.

S&W made an N frame 45 ACP lightweight with 2" barrel awhile back that looked just like this one: Product: Model 327

But yours will have the panache of a pre war custom snubby and look better with a 2 1/4" barrel!!

Hope that helps, it'll be a one-of-a-kind cool N frame belly gun!
 
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Forget all the horror-struck advise to the contrary & go ahead. Your snub will be pretty much the equivalent
of a Colt. Any battery misalignment is what the forcing cone is for.

You will have the S&W equivalent of this Colt .45 I got in post collectible condition and did some re-arrangement.

 
rhmc24 said:
Forget all the horror-struck advise to the contrary & go ahead. Your snub will be pretty much the equivalent
of a Colt. Any battery misalignment is what the forcing cone is for.

You will have the S&W equivalent of this Colt .45 I got in post collectible condition and did some re-arrangement.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The Colt lockup in the rear is much larger than that of the S&W, and cycling the Colt pushes the cylinder into the frame, not out of the frame like the S&W.

The ball detent will probably handle the issue just fine. Without it, I would not recommend assuming that one would have lockup as good as a Colt.

BTW, nice Colt you have there!
 
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The reason that original guns are now collectable is because over time some are destroyed or lost. Today a collector might insist on an 85-90% gun... in the future, who knows? If you clean the gun well, just solvent on a patch... or my favorite is BreakFree CLP & rub hard then apply wax to keep the air out... your gun will remain as is while others will gather wear & tear. In the meantime, you'll not harm yours by sensible shooting.
Guns I bought new years ago have now become sought after & collectable... think hard before you do something irreversible.
 
Glad you like my Colt snub. Not Exactly, the other side of the coin --- the S&W latch pin at the ratchet is in my considered opinion as effective as the Colt. The S&W is a hardened pin turning in a hardened bushing while the Colt latch pin mates with the not hardened ratchet. Altho Colt's being twice the size of S&W, size doesn't matter (at least in this case). This based on checking the S&Ws I have, Triple Locks, K-22 & Perfected.

I have a number of pretty tired old New Service Colts and one of the major wear issues is that of the hand pushing the cylinder in rotation. A lesser but significant issue is wear in the ratchet hole that receives the latch pin. My old tired S&W TLs seem almost as tight as unused ones.

I'd go ahead with the proposed shortening of the barrel that eliminates the forward HE latch function.

All that said, I wouldn't argue with the ball detent idea for whatever peace of mind it gives.
 
VictorSeven said:
I have a M1917 in good condition.
I would like to shorten the barrel as much as possible.
My question is what would happen if I cut it down
so that the lug under the barrel were removed?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Click to expand...


First I'd like to say welcome to the forum.

Yours is a very thought provoking question....
At the percentage of finish condition you describe,
I personally, would not hesitate to build the custom revolver such as the one you describe.

We must remember that we are dealing with steel and craftsmanship,
beauty and function is in the eye of the beholder.

From a pure functionality of the effort,
a ball/detent in the crane is a workable idea.

Best of luck with your project and enjoy it now,
as we know not what the future hold for us, as firearm owners.

All My Best,
Dave
 
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