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Cut Down Barrel Question

Modified

Modified

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On occasion, I've noticed that off center text is still "right" for unusual barrel length guns from the S&W factory. Am I correct in that this was sometimes the case because an odd length barrel order came in, and instead of making a new barrel the factory just cut one down?

I ask because I just snagged this:

Nqy3d92.jpg


I'm entirely happy with the gun for $300 just because of the hammer and the rear sight, even cut down I think that's a fine price for what should at the very least be a fun shooter when I put a set of pre-war magnas on it.

But, when I looked up humpback hammer targets I noticed that the front sight being set back a little bit seems right (I initially thought that was wrong), and noticed at least one gun that had off center lettering that shipped that way.

Is this a case where we are looking at 100% guaranteed cut down barrel?
 
A barrel such as the one shown can't be just cut down because the front sight and base were forged as a part of the barrel. Later guns with ribs can more easily be cut down because the sight and base can be moved by milling a new slot and pinning the sight in the new location. To move the sight on a gun like that one pictured, the sight boss would have to be removed from the cut off section and welded or soldered in the new location, which would usually leave visual evidence of the modification around the base on the sight boss.
 
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I think that may be the case if you look at this picture from the top, here's the rest of the pictures:

t2bRzNL.jpg

ZI1crcU.jpg

SaXPvQB.jpg


I suspect that what you say about moving it back is correct, but the pictures are bad enough that I suppose I'll just have to wait until I have it in hand next week to confirm.

I'm just impatient.
 
That barrel is cut. Likely from 6" to 4". It does not have an integral ramp. And if it did it could still be shortened.

Looks like a pre-war M&P Target but I don't know if factory or if it was made up by a smith back in the day. The front site is too far back to be original and the barrel stampings are way too far towards the muzzle to be correct. I'd buy it for 3 bills to play with.

Man, those ugly rubber grips have got to go.
 
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SaxonPig said:
That barrel is cut. Likely from 6" to 4". It does not have an integral ramp. And if it did it could still be shortened.

Looks like a pre-war M&P Target but I don't know if factory or if it was made up by a smith back in the day. The front site is too far back to be original and the barrel stampings are way too far towards the muzzle to be correct. I'd buy it for 3 bills to play with.

Man, those ugly rubber grips have got to go.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have a set if pre war magnas that are earmarked for this.
 
A good uncut barrel is relatively easy to find for a .38 Hand Ejector. If you want to replace it, post a 'want to buy' ad and you should be able to locate one. I probably even have one or two. :-)
BTW, I have an uncut twin to that gun (target sights and humpback hammer) on my bench right now. I'm also planning on putting as spare set of pre-war magnas on mine.
 
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Thanks for the responses, I assumed it was cut down, I just wanted to make sure I was right.

In any case I'm pleased with the gun at that price, it falls squarely into my "good pre model 10 impulse buy" range. I expect it will be a fun gun to play around with once I have the right stocks on it, and those rubber abominations removed. Whenever it arrives I'll post more shots of it.
 
Cool gun. I'd have gone 3 bills on that one in a heartbeat. My kind of gun. I'll look forward to seeing some wood on it.

Jerry
 
I like this gun a lot, but the prior owner was a wizard of filth. I'm not OCD when it comes to cleaning at all, but this gun forced me to spend an hour and a half disassembling it and cleaning and cleaning and cleaning. It's the only old S&W I have ever had that I felt compelled to immediately take the sideplate off and try to clean.

I must confess, I'm still not done. I think I need to take it completely apart and soak each part in something to get rid of the gritty flakes of.. something that is inside this gun. It's like he wanted his grandaddy to be with his truck gun always so he mixed ol' grandpa's ashes with some grease he found behind an old filling station and packed the inside of the gun with it.

After this first round of cleaning the action is odd. The DA is very nice and smooth, excellent in fact. The SA cocking has a very distinctive and slightly unsettling hitch I don't understand. Then the trigger. Well, the SA trigger has to be ounces. I've never felt any center fire pistol trigger this light. I don't rightly know what's going on here, but it's kind of amazing and I think something someone did to the gun.

We will see how it shoots, the lockup is eh, but it works, the barrel has been cut down and recrowned, so we will see how well that job was accomplished. I do like the HBH hammer, which is why I bought it. I am really considering seeing about putting a 6" barrel back on it. It may be a good candidate to send in for a re-build/finish. Certainly no regrets here.

Fldj6RL.jpg


MtKtcdd.jpg


Y9Q5Dx2.jpg
 
The 'hitch' could be several things. The hand could be dragging. The trigger return mech could have burrs. The cylinder could be dragging. The mainspring strain screw could have been shortened. Too much of that will cause a hitch.
 
cgt4570 said:
The 'hitch' could be several things. The hand could be dragging. The trigger return mech could have burrs. The cylinder could be dragging. The mainspring strain screw could have been shortened. Too much of that will cause a hitch.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that is really useful. I'll probably have to look closely at the trigger return, I think that may be where the problem is. I had it mostly apart last night and I can say that the strain screw does look to be intact, the hand *may* be the issue, but I'm pretty certain it's not the cylinder.
 
That's a really neat looking gun.

My 1st advice is always a good cleaning. Amazing how often that will cure minor ills.
 
Sixgun,

Another nice find! The partially covered up patent dates in one of the 1st photos was my clue to a cut off barrel. I had to wash my eyes out with bleach after the 1st pix with 'Goodyear' grips. What a vast improvement with wood stocks!

The humpback hammers were also factory installed on K frames when the option was ordered. But like yours they sit much higher, leading me to believe that only N frame size humpbacks were produced and used for both K and N frames. Notice the difference, how lower they are when on N frames:
3844ods_humpbacks.jpg


I think the 'hitch' will be easy to figure out by cycling the action slowly with the sideplate off and observing which parts are interacting when the hitch is felt.

Do I sense another 'letter' in the mail???
 
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If it functions OK I would use it as is. That does look like a factory installation on the rear sight. The rear sight and HBH are probably worth more than $300.00 just for the parts.

Concerning the centering of the lettering, my Second Model 44 Special HE has the Smith and Wesson marking offset toward the frame. The 44 Special markings on the other side of the barrel are also offset toward the frame. It is a 6 and 1/2 inch barrel. So, I would say it probably can vary some. I once had an early 50ties Outdoorsman with a 4 and 1/2 inch barrel. The lettering was dead center.

Check the single action sear and notch for wear/burrs. Could be some of that crud is causing the problem.
 
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Skeetr57 said:
Jim: Hammers won't interchange between K and N frames. Triggers will, but not hammers.
Click to expand...

Tom, you're correct and I didn't meant to imply that they would. I should have been more specific, it's not a drop in swap. However, when K and N frame hammers are laid one atop the other, the bases and all critical machined contact surfaces and pin holes match up identically.

The differences are the height of the nose and size of the hump below the hammer spur. By theorizing that the same humpback hammer was used by the factory I was thinking that the same hammer forging finished to different dimensions in those two areas, a simple task at the factory, may be a way of using it for both K and N applications.

Actually it doesn't even appear to be that much of a challenge for a gunsmith to do after the factory. But, certainly SixgunStrumpet's hammer is not an after market modification. The patent # stamping is clearly visible on the hump.
 
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Jim: I agree that the same forging could be used for either size hammer at the factory level, but I'm not so sure about a gunsmith being able to make a conversion because the firing pin slot and rivet hole location being different.
 
Tom,

I think you may under estimate their capabilities. A conversion by definition is not just a swap of parts.

Though not as simple of course as doing it originally at the factory and I'm not saying that many gunsmiths would want to, when you look at the welding and reshaping King and MicroSight did to make cockeyed hammers back in the day, it's a cake walk. I could do it and I'm a rank amature.

The easier way I would do it is to slice off the humpback spur and weld it to the K frame hammer, finish and recolor case harden it. Here's my large frame Ruger Super Blackhawk hammer spur transplanted just that way to the little Ruger single six hammer:
cid_20140416_083959.jpg


SBH hammer before conversion in full size Ruger:
orig.jpg


Welding and recutting the precise hammer notches to restore old Colt single action hammers is a lot more difficult and yet common place today.

The custom smiths do amazing work these days, and you pay for it. Have you seen Cylinder and Slides' 1911 hammerless conversion offering?
 
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