Parker Hale .38 Special S & W

unikscal · Sep 19, 2015

I recently came into a .38 S&W that has all kinds of markings all over it. There is not a model number in the usual place but there is a serial number there. Right side of ramped sight is stamped Parker Hale, England. On various parts of frame and cylinder is a crown over BMP. Bottom of butt has serial number and a bursting bomb stamp that follows the letters W B.
ANY ASSISTANCE IN IDENTIFYING THE ORIGINS AND PARTICULARS OF THIS REVOLVER IS NEEDED.

Engine49guy · Sep 19, 2015

Parker Hale purchased a quantity of WWII British Victory S&W revolvers in .38 S&W then lopped off the front site and tacked down a new front site with rib to modernize the look, Im surprised your lanyard loop remains as many were removed then filled the hole.
They then bored the cylinder to accept 38 special and sold them through magazines in 50's 60's on the cheap.
Problem is the 38 S&W is a bit larger so when these guns are fired with 38 special it bulges the cases.

BTW Some were even converted to 22lr.

The stamps on your gun were acceptance marks applied when imported for military use.

Absalom · Sep 19, 2015

Engine49guy said:
The stamps on your gun were acceptance marks applied when imported for military use.

Nothing to add to Engine49guy's information, except one minor correction:

The stamps visible are actually civilian proof marks, applied when the gun was released from military service for commercial sale; if I interpret the specific samples pictured in Pate correctly, your gun was proofed at Birmingham before Parker-Hale acquired it.

Art Doc · Sep 19, 2015

The 38 S&W is .361" and the 38 Special is .357" in diameter. When 38 Special ammo is fired in the gun the cases swell or split and the bullet rattles down the over sized bore leaving much to be desired in accuracy.

Should be fine if you stick with proper 38 S&W ammo. But it can be hard to find and pricey.

tyndalltb · Sep 19, 2015

As mentioned the WB was Col Waldemar Bromberg, US Army, and Flaming Bomb stamp accepting S&Ws Lend/Lease work, and the small P is the US proof. On the same picture is a Broad Arrow-Head wrapped in half circle, which is actually a "C" of when Canada accepted the revolver for military service. The early Canada Pre-Victories had the Broad Arrow C back by the Hammer on the left side of the frame, the earliest (#7XX,XXX) had 6 in barrels by contract, and then shortened to 5 in by (#9XX,XXX) contracts. I'm guessing it stayed in Her Majesties service in England after the war because the Birmingham "Private View" Mark shows the "crossed-sceptres" with L2B of when it entered the civilian market. According to the books, the "L" puts it at a 1960 proof returning it to civilian service; probably the sale to the Parker-Hale company in England. My Canada examples are both pre-victories and also have the BNP crown proofs, so I'm guessing England retained all the Victories after the war versus sending them back to Canada
.

DWalt · Sep 19, 2015

"Col Waldemar Bromberg, US Army"
It's actually Broberg, but some references do state Bromberg. That is incorrect.

Dave_n · Sep 22, 2015

Actually I have one of these with the 4" barrel, converted very nicely by inserting a sleeve in each cylinder after over boring so that 38 specials will fit snugly. Performed by Parker Hale and then sold in the USA. 38 S & W will not fit which is why I looked very carefully with a lens at the front of each cylinder and saw the sleeves. Dave_n

DWalt · Sep 22, 2015

Dave_n said:
Actually I have one of these with the 4" barrel, converted very nicely by inserting a sleeve in each cylinder after over boring so that 38 specials will fit snugly. Performed by Parker Hale and then sold in the USA. 38 S & W will not fit which is why I looked very carefully with a lens at the front of each cylinder and saw the sleeves. Dave_n

Allegedly, some of the .38 S&W to .38 Special conversions done in England did use chamber sleeving rather than simple chamber deepening. That would be the quality way to do it, as it would entail considerable expense and some precision workmanship. Unfortunately, I have never seen one, at least not that I am aware of. There were also some converted to .22 RF by chamber and barrel sleeving, and I have seen a few of those.

Absalom · Sep 22, 2015

Dave_n said:
Actually I have one of these with the 4" barrel, converted very nicely by inserting a sleeve in each cylinder after over boring so that 38 specials will fit snugly. Performed by Parker Hale and then sold in the USA. 38 S & W will not fit which is why I looked very carefully with a lens at the front of each cylinder and saw the sleeves. Dave_n

That is interesting. Wages must have been pretty low back then; these days, I don't think you'd have any hope of recovering the labor cost of performing that operation through the price you could expect to get for such a gun. And from what I've read, even in earlier years converted re-imported BSR's sold dirt-cheap here.

Muley Gil · Sep 23, 2015

Welcome to the Forum.

"I recently came into a .38 S&W that has all kinds of markings all over it. There is not a model number in the usual place but there is a serial number there."

The number found stamped on the frame behind the yoke is an assembly number used during the manufacture of the revolver. The true serial number is stamped on the butt. This revolver is also considered a "pre Victory", since it was built before the "V" serial number series started.

linde · Sep 23, 2015

SaxonPig said:
The 38 S&W is .361" and the 38 Special is .357" in diameter. When 38 Special ammo is fired in the gun the cases swell or split and the bullet rattles down the over sized bore leaving much to be desired in accuracy . . .

Just to clarify . . . for those of us still on the learning curve . . . there are two dimensional differences between the .38 S&W and the .38 Special causing the two issues mentioned by SaxonPig above.

The bore diameter is different . . . .361" versus .357" . . . causing the .38 Special bullet to rattle down the bore.

The chamber diameter is also different . . . .3855" versus .379" . . . which is what causes the .38 Special case to swell & possibly split.

Russ

DWalt · Sep 23, 2015

"The bore diameter is different . . . .361" versus .357" . . . causing the .38 Special bullet to rattle down the bore."

Hardly rattle. I have reloaded thousands of rounds of .38 S&W using ordinary .357-.358 lead bullets. They group fairly well, despite being slightly undersized. Not match loads, but certainly OK. Some reload using hollow-base wadcutter bullets which expand under pressure to fill the bore. I have yet to see a split .38 Special case fired in a re-bored .38/200. They bulge, but so what? But even if a .38 Special case did split, that presents no hazard.

Parker Hale .38 Special S & W

unikscal

Member

Attachments

Engine49guy

Member

Absalom

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

Attachments

Art Doc

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

tyndalltb

Member

DWalt

Member

Dave_n

Member

DWalt

Member

Absalom

SWCA Member, Absent Comrade

Muley Gil

US Veteran

linde

US Veteran

DWalt

Member

Similar threads

Latest posts