Victory ? need help

Giovanni53 · Nov 24, 2016

Good Morning to all Forum , Buongiorno dall'Italia
yesterday i have buy in guns store in Palermo (Italy) a revolver Smith Wesson caliber 38 spl for 200 euro , strange things:- sure has refinished like bad factory mode , in the back B.A.N and a little star . Somebody can help me ?
sorry for mistake write , this is my english.
many thanks

murphydog · Nov 24, 2016

It appears to be a standard 4" barrel Victory Model in .38 Special. The left barrel appears to have British proof stampings that were placed when the gun was sold onto the commercial market from military surplus, much of this happening in the 1950s. In Europe, it is more typical to find these with 5" barrels and in .38 S & W cailber, as this was the standard British service revolver in WW II.

If the barrel flat (near the ejector rod) has the same serial number as the frame it is factory original to the gun. As you noted it is refinished in blue rather than the factory matte gray, but it is not the worst job I have seen. The stocks are also from a later gun (1946-'67). The B.A.N. and star may be an importer's stamp, or the ID of a police or security organization - it was not done at the factory. Is there an Italian police force with these initials? Hope this is helpful.

epj · Nov 24, 2016

Using an on line calculator, 200 euros equals $211 USD. That's pretty cheap for a solid shooter. Now, the question that remains is whether this old Victory model is a solid shooter. Also there is the question of whether the barrel and cylinder are both actually chambered and bored for .38 Specilal. Most of those that went to Europe, (UK) during WW ll were chambered in .38 S&W. Many of these were rechambered to .38 Special after the war. The problem is that the .38 S&W is a few thousandths larger in both bore and chamber ( charge holes), as well as chamber throats. The ones that were converted will chamber and fire .38 Special, but not necessarily without issues. If that one is an original .38 Special and is in decent mechanical condition, I wouldn't be too concerned with the extra markings. Looks like it could make an excellent shooter.

austintexas · Nov 24, 2016

With my trusty magnifying glass I can read Special on the barrel. Since it is a 4 inch I'll bet that it is an original .38 special. $200 odd dollars is a great buy even refinished.
SWCA 892

epj · Nov 24, 2016

Assuming there are no significant mechanical problems, that would go home with me for $211. I'm no fan of fixed sight K frames, but I'd make an exception at that price.

KEN L · Nov 24, 2016

That one may be worth a letter. I once had this one...

It was a DSC gun also, but not with the English markings, but was marked on the bottom of the grip like yours with the sideways "W".

It was part of the United States Strategic Services (O.S.S.) contract. It shipped to United States Strategic Services, VA Aug 22, 1944. Sometimes you just never know what you're going to run across. Even though re-finished with incorrect stocks, I think yours is worth at least twice as much than you paid for it and the letter may prove to be quite a bit more. Nice score!

Absalom · Nov 24, 2016

You appear to have a rather interesting and not very common Victory, namely an original US version in .38 Special with the 4" barrel that ended up in British service or at least surplused out in Britain. The commercial Birmingham proofs on the barrel are for .38 Special, which you don't see a lot.

The explanation probably lies in the back strap stamping. I don't know what it means either, but it is definitely not an importer mark, but some agency identifier. The gun probably ended up serving in some post-war Western European police force and was then surplused through a Britain-based wholesaler.

kwill1911 · Nov 24, 2016

This was in all likelihood an OSS gun originally. The photo is very blurry but the "little star" is probably two British broad arrow stamps point to point. The original broad arrow signified military issue and the second one was added to signify release from stores, i.e. sold commercially.

Absalom · Nov 24, 2016

kwill1911 said:
This was in all likelihood an OSS gun originally. The photo is very blurry but the "little star" is probably two British broad arrow stamps point to point. The original broad arrow signified military issue and the second one was added to signify release from stores, i.e. sold commercially.

That would fit. I seem to remember discussions about other OSS guns that ended up with post-war local police in occupied Europe.

regmag-621 · Nov 24, 2016

Hi Giovanni53,

your Victory revolver was issued in the American Occupation Zone in Berlin as police gun after WWII to a police station in Neukölln.

BAN* means:

B = Berlin
A = Allied
N = Neukölln

Victory Revolvers are a very interesting collector topic, a lot of different stampings are found especially under the thumb piece and on the back strap.

Regards from Germany
Paul SWCA 1354

ordnanceguy · Nov 24, 2016

kwill1911 said:
The photo is very blurry but the "little star" is probably two British broad arrow stamps point to point. The original broad arrow signified military issue and the second one was added to signify release from stores, i.e. sold commercially.

Kevin is correct in stating that this revolver will letter as having originally shipped to the OSS. Many of the OSS guns ended up being transferred to West German police agencies after the war. The .38 Special cartridge, unusual in Germany at that time, was thought to be one more method to control the few firearms that Germans, even police, were allowed.

Neukolln is a district in Berlin that was in the American Sector.

However, that "star" symbol is not two opposing British Broad Arrow symbols indicating some connection to the British. Rather, the star (also sometimes referred to as the sunburst, rosette or flower) is associated with Berlin. It was usually placed on those firearms provided by US forces to West German police in the US sector of Berlin. In addition to its use on the Victory as seen here this marking has also been observed on FN M1922 pistols and M-1 Carbines used by West Berlin police.

The Victory Model Database contains one other example of a BAN * marked Victory in .38 Special, also refinished to blue, V497291.

I am very hesitant to disagree with my friend Paul in Germany about German markings but my information is that the "A" in BAN refers to the American sector, rather than "Allied". "B" marked guns refer to the British sector while "F" marked guns were in the French sector.

The image below shows an FN pistol used by West Berlin Police in the American sector. The Berlin star/rosette/sunburst and the "A" for American sector are evident. [Photo credit to Bruno38]

Absalom · Nov 24, 2016

ordnanceguy said:
........ Rather, the star (also sometimes referred to as the sunburst, rosette or flower) is associated with Berlin. It was usually placed on those firearms provided by US forces to West German police in the US sector of Berlin. In addition to its use on the Victory as seen here this marking has also been observed on FN M1922 pistols and M-1 Carbines used by West Berlin police.
......

The photo was too blurry for me to recognize. The Berlin sunburst is a stylized police star that was not just placed on guns provided by the occupation forces, but also later on those acquired by the Berlin police directly, like the Manurhin-produced P 1 below. Berlin only stopped the practice with the acquisition of the P 6 in 1979.

kwill1911 · Nov 24, 2016

My apologies for the mistake on the star. Fortunately there are smarter people than me around to share the right information. It is an interesting revolver.

Victory ? need help

Giovanni53

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murphydog

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epj

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austintexas

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epj

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KEN L

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Absalom

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kwill1911

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Absalom

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regmag-621

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ordnanceguy

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Absalom

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