RM Vivas
US Veteran
In the course of reviewing S&W Victory DSC records I decided to go through the Repair files to see if I could glean some serial numbers. I did manage to find perhaps one thousand or so but their use is questionable because they don't show who a Victory went to or when but rather simply show who possessed it at the time it went in for repair.
True it helps when you find a repair order for 15 Victory revolvers from Boeing Aircraft, but most are just individuals or gunshops or locksmiths or the like sending in a Victory for repair.
It's very tempting to skim the correspondence and, upon not seeing a serial number anywhere, discard it and go on to the next letter. However, if you take the time to -try- to read everything, you can find some stories that really flesh out the human experience and how men (it was almost all men) related to and valued their revolvers.
These are some letters that, while short on serial number data in most cases, still speak volumes about revolvers in WW2. It's absolutely amazing how many private purchase guns went over, not just for officers and such, but a great many enlisted men as well. Based on the Repair orders I've seen the New Departure revolvers were surprisingly well represented in the various fields. Not so much the M&P's and the like, but there were LOTS of requests for ND parts and service!
The Repair files, of course, were not just about Victory revolvers. The search parameters were to pull up all files for the war years that involved repairs to .38 caliber revolvers and that pulled up not just Victory .38 Specials but also .38 New New Departures, .38 Perfecteds, etc. While my initial response was to skip over these, I read them anyway and am glad I did. Found a note for a Tiffany gun!
So, attached are some of the arms bon mots that I thought we all might enjoy. Please remember that these things would not be here without the incredible work of the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation! You're a member, right?
=============================================
1945 Repair order for a Tiffany mounted .38 Double Action revolver #284640. The question was who was better suited to disassemble the gun and grips for servicing; a jeweler or the factory?
Can you imagine having a Tiffany gun, signed Tiffany?
This letter is interesting. The Curator of Mammals at the Museum of Vertebrate Zoology and University of California Berkley (!) wants a reamed out cylinder fitted to his -SMOOTHBORE- M&P #359814 that he uses to collect specimens. S&W's response is really nice in that they state they normally wouldn't undertake such work but the writer's logic for needing such a modification makes sense, so they will do it.
Left completely out of the conversation is the NFA issues.
I wonder if the writer got his academic department at the university to cover the charges. That'd be a kick!
LT. O.G. Kane made it home from the Pacific Theater of Operations in November 1945 and brought back a souvenir: S&W M&P 38/200 #818026. The source of the revolver? Taken off a Jap prisoner! LT Kane wanted the gun refinished. I'm a little surprised LT. Kane wouldn't want the gun in the same condition as when encountered in the field, but….
Note that he wanted the gun chromed and S&W stated they don't do chrome (they did once, but that is an entirely different post) and so LT. Kane opted for nickel.
Somewhere this gun is sitting in a collection and the owner thinks it is a typical post-war surplus gun that was refinished. If only they knew……
How far does a mother's love go? Far enough for her to help find parts for the revolver of her son, a soldier in the Pacific. According to mom, if she can get the parts her boy can "…eliminate a few more Japs, and I guess that's what we're all after right now…" Mom was -hardcore-! Get some!
S&W seemed entirely onboard with this and responded appropriately.
J. Neilson Barry of Portland Oregon was part of the sheriff's militia/posse/reserve during the war and a fan of the Victory revolver. He's one of the few fellows I've come across thus far who really liked the finish. His letters suggest he had some sort of relationship or familiarity with David Murray at S&W, as most correspondence from other S&W owners is of the Dear Sirs/To Whom It May Concern sort of thing.
Mr. Barry expounds on his stateside experiences during the war, including some interesting observations on Japanese balloon bombs. These were supposed to be kept strictly secret so the Japanese would not know if they were effective or not. Mr. Barry describes having encountered these. He also makes some comments about how the "Gnu deal" did not sit well with him.
In one letter he asks for a grip adapter for his Victory and the response from S&W (not shown here) is that they have decided to discontinue the grip adapter because they were not compatible with the new Magna grips.
There are several pages of correspondence which I have reduced down to four pages of Mr. Barrys writing because, quite frankly, he comes across as the sort of character who you'd want to have a couple drinks and shoot the breeze with.
SGT Lawrence Fischer of the 513 Parachute Infantry contacted S&W about the possibility of converting his .38 revolver to 9mm. An understandable idea and one that I have seen illustrations of when done by partisans. S&W not only described the machining to be done to make it work, they sent him half-moon clips in 9mm from their own experiments!!!
SGT Fischer later responded that he believed his unit was going to rotate back to CONUS now that the ETO was settled but if he was going to the China-Burma-India theater, he'd do the conversion.
So anyway, an extremely small sample of some of the interesting things I've come across. I consider these more "human interest" than actual historically relevant material (things like design changes, shipping manifests, etc.), but it does flesh out the end-user side of the manufacturing process.
Support the S&WHF; they make this stuff happen!
Best,
RM Vivas
True it helps when you find a repair order for 15 Victory revolvers from Boeing Aircraft, but most are just individuals or gunshops or locksmiths or the like sending in a Victory for repair.
It's very tempting to skim the correspondence and, upon not seeing a serial number anywhere, discard it and go on to the next letter. However, if you take the time to -try- to read everything, you can find some stories that really flesh out the human experience and how men (it was almost all men) related to and valued their revolvers.
These are some letters that, while short on serial number data in most cases, still speak volumes about revolvers in WW2. It's absolutely amazing how many private purchase guns went over, not just for officers and such, but a great many enlisted men as well. Based on the Repair orders I've seen the New Departure revolvers were surprisingly well represented in the various fields. Not so much the M&P's and the like, but there were LOTS of requests for ND parts and service!
The Repair files, of course, were not just about Victory revolvers. The search parameters were to pull up all files for the war years that involved repairs to .38 caliber revolvers and that pulled up not just Victory .38 Specials but also .38 New New Departures, .38 Perfecteds, etc. While my initial response was to skip over these, I read them anyway and am glad I did. Found a note for a Tiffany gun!
So, attached are some of the arms bon mots that I thought we all might enjoy. Please remember that these things would not be here without the incredible work of the Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation! You're a member, right?
=============================================
1945 Repair order for a Tiffany mounted .38 Double Action revolver #284640. The question was who was better suited to disassemble the gun and grips for servicing; a jeweler or the factory?
Can you imagine having a Tiffany gun, signed Tiffany?
This letter is interesting. The Curator of Mammals at the Museum of Vertebrate Zoology and University of California Berkley (!) wants a reamed out cylinder fitted to his -SMOOTHBORE- M&P #359814 that he uses to collect specimens. S&W's response is really nice in that they state they normally wouldn't undertake such work but the writer's logic for needing such a modification makes sense, so they will do it.
Left completely out of the conversation is the NFA issues.
I wonder if the writer got his academic department at the university to cover the charges. That'd be a kick!
LT. O.G. Kane made it home from the Pacific Theater of Operations in November 1945 and brought back a souvenir: S&W M&P 38/200 #818026. The source of the revolver? Taken off a Jap prisoner! LT Kane wanted the gun refinished. I'm a little surprised LT. Kane wouldn't want the gun in the same condition as when encountered in the field, but….
Note that he wanted the gun chromed and S&W stated they don't do chrome (they did once, but that is an entirely different post) and so LT. Kane opted for nickel.
Somewhere this gun is sitting in a collection and the owner thinks it is a typical post-war surplus gun that was refinished. If only they knew……
How far does a mother's love go? Far enough for her to help find parts for the revolver of her son, a soldier in the Pacific. According to mom, if she can get the parts her boy can "…eliminate a few more Japs, and I guess that's what we're all after right now…" Mom was -hardcore-! Get some!
S&W seemed entirely onboard with this and responded appropriately.
J. Neilson Barry of Portland Oregon was part of the sheriff's militia/posse/reserve during the war and a fan of the Victory revolver. He's one of the few fellows I've come across thus far who really liked the finish. His letters suggest he had some sort of relationship or familiarity with David Murray at S&W, as most correspondence from other S&W owners is of the Dear Sirs/To Whom It May Concern sort of thing.
Mr. Barry expounds on his stateside experiences during the war, including some interesting observations on Japanese balloon bombs. These were supposed to be kept strictly secret so the Japanese would not know if they were effective or not. Mr. Barry describes having encountered these. He also makes some comments about how the "Gnu deal" did not sit well with him.
In one letter he asks for a grip adapter for his Victory and the response from S&W (not shown here) is that they have decided to discontinue the grip adapter because they were not compatible with the new Magna grips.
There are several pages of correspondence which I have reduced down to four pages of Mr. Barrys writing because, quite frankly, he comes across as the sort of character who you'd want to have a couple drinks and shoot the breeze with.
SGT Lawrence Fischer of the 513 Parachute Infantry contacted S&W about the possibility of converting his .38 revolver to 9mm. An understandable idea and one that I have seen illustrations of when done by partisans. S&W not only described the machining to be done to make it work, they sent him half-moon clips in 9mm from their own experiments!!!
SGT Fischer later responded that he believed his unit was going to rotate back to CONUS now that the ETO was settled but if he was going to the China-Burma-India theater, he'd do the conversion.
So anyway, an extremely small sample of some of the interesting things I've come across. I consider these more "human interest" than actual historically relevant material (things like design changes, shipping manifests, etc.), but it does flesh out the end-user side of the manufacturing process.
Support the S&WHF; they make this stuff happen!
Best,
RM Vivas
...Ben
