Opinions on Welded Frames

younggun22 · Jun 19, 2017

I am trying to work a deal on a pre war .44 that had had the barrel chopped down to 3 inch and the front sight has been poorly reattached but it is wearing a decent set of pre war Magnas.

Someone at some point tried to add target sights and milled out the rear sight channel. The current owner has had it welded back up and made to look sort of factory. He states that a "master welder" did the work and proper heat sinks were used.

I would like to bring the gun back to its former glory and maybe even put a set of target sights on it but I am really concerned about the integrity of the frame.

Am I getting in over my head and asking for trouble?

M29since14 · Jun 19, 2017

Sounds like a money-pit. I suppose if all you are going to do is shoot .44 Specials you might get along just fine with this but it's not something I would be enthusiastic about. Just my opinion, worth nothing. I know similar work is done all the time by some of the best pistolsmiths in the business, so you can see how much I know.

Mistered · Jun 19, 2017

Sounds like a money-pit.

I agree - and not because I have any experience in 'hacked' guns but as a welder I understand the ramifications of poor work. Unless I knew the person who did it personally I would consider it essentially junk and move on. I notice you said 'welded back up and made to look sort of factory' which is NOT factory. '"master welder" means nothing to me unless I know of his work personally. I used to repair weld SS mold blocks for a guy I knew who produced EDM etched mold blocks for dental braces so I understand precision TIG welding. Move on - quickly!

S&W ucla · Jun 19, 2017

I would buy it for the value of the magnas. That can vary a lot depending on condition.

Muss Muggins · Jun 19, 2017

I'd buy it for $100 . . .

younggun22 · Jun 19, 2017

I knew the answer but I needed to hear it. Always hard to pass on an affordable triple lock though!

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Hondo44 · Jun 19, 2017

Hold on, you didn't say it was a TL originally, that's a horse of another color.

What price range are you dealing in?

You need to ask your question of the smith that you'd consider doing the work for a definitive answer; Cyl and Slide, Clements, etc.

2152hq · Jun 20, 2017

I'd dismiss the 'done by a master welder' comment and view the current rebuild issue as suspect as best for the moment.
The welder may have been a true Master,,might not,,you just don't know what and how it was done.

Then figure out what the rest of the rig is worth in parts to me and go after a deal from that direction.
The owner knows he;s at a disadvantage with the current condition of the gun and what's been done to it. Welding scares people off especially when it's been done to the frame (and rightfully so when you don't know by whom).

Most anything can be fixed. How much $$ you want to spend doing it is the issue. The 'money pit' comment is perfect.
There is at least one excellent firearms restoration welding comp that I'd recommend for this type of work. There are certainly others.
Gun Repair | Micro Precision Welding

Maybe it doesn't need any further welding work,,maybe it needs the entire top strap cut out and a new one welded into placed and shaped as original (yes it's done).

Lot's of differences in costs right there!
That's why the 'buy it for the parts' advise,, You may want to go a bit higher than you want too especially being a T/L. But temper that feeling with the knowledge that the end result will still be a repaired/ refinished T/L and be valued as one.
I enjoy saving the cast aside, abused and unloved firearms as much as anyone, but if you're not doing all or nearly all of the work yourself, it truely will be a very expensive labor of love
JMHO

steelslaver · Jun 20, 2017

I know some great welders, one of my brothers is a certified welding inspector. Even if I had a great tig welder weld on a frame and even if it was heat sinked while he did it, I would still be leery of that frame. First the heat sink in the rear sight area isn't going to stop the complete area of that critical corner of the frame window from becoming heat effected. Just not enough "meat" in the area to soak up the heat even if sink it. Your going to seriously mess with the steels structure in this area. Very small passes with a small torch setting could minimize this but, its still going to be there. I know frames have been converted for adjustable to fixed in this manner. Still a poor idea unless you stress relieve the frame when done. Welding is done by creating a small pool of molten metal, when that metal solidifies it shrinks, that shrinking creates stress. If I take a piece of 1" plate and run a series of small weld bead down the face of it it will bow the sides up. Less weld less bow, but its still there. 1 big weld of 10 little ones that add up to the same amount of weld are going to cause a bow from the stresses. Even then, with a perfect weld it would not be the same as a factory forging. Might be able to stand the pressures and function fine, but to me its a poor ideal and a last resort. Micro welding is some great stuff and I do believe it can be done successfully on a gun, but, this is a case of knowing exactly what your doing. Even a nuke certified alloy welder doesn't know exactly what he is doing on a gun or for that matter most of the time on the pipe, Thats why we need real engineers.

Triple locks and early models were not know for their heat treat or being used in higher pressure applications. But, still not right.

I am a gun modifier, some things I would and will weld on. Anything close to the frame window would cause me serious pause.

rhmc24 · Jun 20, 2017

If you do your own work, I'd shape it up to functional & shoot a box of .44 Special. If no adverse result, then go ahead & finish it up. I'd do some measurements to check now & then as you shoot. I don't see much hazard if it fails, wear eye protection, gloves & hold at arm's length, away from other people. Most revolver failures don't injure the shooter --

younggun22 · Jun 20, 2017

Hondo44 said:
Hold on, you didn't say it was a TL originally, that's a horse of another color.

What price range are you dealing in?

You need to ask your question of the smith that you'd consider doing the work for a definitive answer; Cyl and Slide, Clements, etc.

He's at $800 right now. I haven't thought about which smith would do the work as I considered this a long term project.

bruce5781 · Jun 20, 2017

younggun22 said:
He's at $800 right now. I haven't thought about which smith would do the work as I considered this a long term project.

I am a champion of lost causes and to me, the TL's hold an almost mystical value. That being said, I think it's way over priced.
I just recently found an original 5" for only $200 more.

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keith44spl · Jun 20, 2017

I would be a little concerned about the supposed heat sink.....

Would be a lot more interested about the drawing back (re-tempering)
of the welded areas or the whole frame for that matter.

.

JSR III · Jun 20, 2017

I too believe in restoring unloved old S&W's but messing with the metal with extreme heat even if done by a quality welder would make me very nervous. At $400 it would be a no brainer but at $800 I would think that you are too close to the purchase price of a real gun. Maybe not on one of the auction sites where prices get inflated due to the size of the potential buyer pool but perhaps from a local seller or small gun show.

As others have stated, you would still have a messed with TL which will always scare away many future buyers.

younggun22 · Jun 20, 2017

I am going to see if he will come off his price and maybe I can purchase it for the value of its parts as it is the only way that makes sense to me without know who did the work

keith44spl · Jun 20, 2017

younggun22 said:
I am going to see if he will come off his price and maybe I can purchase it for the value of its parts as it is the only way that makes sense to me without know who did the work

That could be the ticket.........

An Outdoorsman Becomes a Triple Lock....Shot it Today (Target in post 39)

.

Wiregrassguy · Jun 20, 2017

You said it has pre-war magnas on it. That makes the gun value at $400 which is probably what selling discrete parts would bring. Of course, I'm assuming the magnas are in decent condition.

younggun22 · Jun 20, 2017

Wiregrassguy said:
You said it has pre-war magnas on it. That makes the gun value at $400 which is probably what selling discrete parts would bring. Of course, I'm assuming the magnas are in decent condition.

The pre-ware magnas seem to be in OK condition, but looks like they will probably need to be sent off to Paul (DWFan)

Wiregrassguy · Jun 20, 2017

Well, that'll knock the value a bit if they need work.

THE PILGRIM · Jun 20, 2017

Would not touch it with 10 foot pole!

Opinions on Welded Frames

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