Can a 19-4 handle a steady diet of factory 357?

Bripro68

Bripro68

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The great interweb offers mixed feelings about this. Now that I joined here I can ask the experts. I hear too often that my model 19-4 is meant for 38s with the occasional 357. However I know it was built from the ground up for Bill to be a 357 on a K frame. What is the forums opinion? Thanks, Brian.
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Sure, why wouldn't it?

I would imagine that you would go broke before you wore out a K frame.

There have been reports of really hot 125 grainers cracking the forcing cones on the 19's and 66's, but by the time you ran enough rounds through to do that, you could save up and buy another gun.
 
Yes, I specifically heard the forcing cone would be at risk. I plan to keep using it how I have been but wanted to get some opinions from the forum. Thanks in advance, Brian
 
You're going to get 50 different opinions from 35 members ;).

Personal opinion - if you use large numbers (thousands) of full .357s you will accelerate wear on it, and the cracked forcing cone is a known but relatively infrequent consequence of this, usually with full 125 gr loads. The factory no longer has new parts for it.

If you have an L or N frame (or trade your nice 19-4 for one), that would be better suited for heavy .357 use.
 
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I find that mine is a lot more accurate with 158 gr. than with most of the modern 125 gr. 357 that's sold today. But needless to say I shoot mostly 38's out of it. Just don't want to take chances on a revolver that is pinned, recessed, and has had a history with cracked forcing cones. Mine is in great shape and I want it to stay that way for when it's passed down someday.
 
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Any light bullet .357 Magnum load (125gr and smaller) will cause premature wear in K frame .357 Magnums. The problems have been well-documented.

Not only have there been problems with cracked and prematurely eroded forcing cones, there have also been numerous examples of excessive flame cutting of the top strap, and early end shake development.

There are also tests out there which have compared powders, bullet lengths, bullet seating, etc., that bears out some of these problems.

There were a number of police departments in the 1970's, the Kentucky State Police among them, which replaced K frame magnums, with N frames, at S&W's expense.

The problem is real, although not as severe for the average shooter.
 
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I've had my M13-2 for 25 yrs or so, and I've always shot it with .357s. or .38s in factory or warm handloads, lead or jacketed, w/bullets seldom lighter than 150 or heavier than 170, or whatever I felt like shooting that particular day. It's still in fine shape, maybe a bit less finish than when I took it out of the box that first day, and still shoots the way I want a service-type revolver to shoot. As long as you stick with the heavier bullet wts, I don't guess I'd worry much about your M19. Shoot, clean, oil, repeat as desired.

Larry
 
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"Can a 19-4 handle a steady diet of factory 357?"
Probably, but why would anyone want to do that? It would also depend upon how many rounds per year a "Steady Diet" means. I am not at all in love with muzzle blast and recoil, therefore a "Steady Diet" for my shooting .357 revolvers is 95%+ .38 Special.
 
The problems with the K frames and shooting a great deal of full power ammo are not BS, but they do have to be considered in context.

I suspect you will find that current factory .357s are nowhere near as rank as the old school stuff such as from the 70s for example. It was also about that time that LE learned that practicing with .38s and then loading up with .357s was not a good idea (see, among other things, The "Newhall" incident, which was also had tactics issues, like poor stop tactics, not using long guns until too late, etc). About the same time, there was the start of more litigation about police shootings, some of which were not consistent with what we would do today. Even then, however, misses were bad stuff. That drove a LOT more training, and shooting a steady diet of hot ammo is hard on anything, including the shooter and the budget.

It is unlikely that as a private purchaser you would be able to spend enough on ammo to do any real damage to the revolver, and depending on your age and physical tolerance, even if you can, you are not likely to.
 
If shooting only .357 Magnums, I would stick to the 158 grain loads and you should be fine. Most of the problems discussed seem to come from the hot 125's.

I still have my first handgun, a 4" Model 19-3 that was given to me by my parents in 1985. It has seen everything from .38 Special target wadcutters to the hot 125 grain .357's to a couple thousand 158 grain .357 loads.

It is still in great shape but I have semi retired it now and do most of my heavy .357 blasting out of a 4" 686-1.
 
Bill Jordan himself did convince S&W to make the Combat Magnum, but in his day, it was the practice to use 38 Special for most shooting and .357 Magnum for qualification and carry. Remember also that the only .357 Magnum load in widespread use when the Combat Magnum was designed was the 158 grain load.

It is, however, not wise to use all Magnums in a revolver for which parts are no longer made. It is also not wise to use all Magnums as you will cause your wallet to empty out in short order.

I have heard of people having close to 20,000 rounds of 158 grain Magnum loads through a Model 19, but I do not see the point. The L frame was designed from the ground up for a continuous diet of Magnums. The Combat Magnum was not.

My vote is to enjoy your collector's item with light loads.
 
I vote that you should do whatever pleases you with YOUR gun. I also believe that shooting that 19 with heavy bullet magnums won't cause any noticeable harm.

Enjoy it on your terms,
 
Well here's my two cents worth, they don't make the old style 19's anymore and why take a chance with them. The majority of the .357 Mag loads I run through my 19's are mid range 158gr LSWC loads. For full house all the time shooting I turn to my 586's. After all there is a reason that S&W brought out the L frames.
 
I don't know for sure. I only know what I see for myself and hear from others.

What I know is that my 19-3 has never had a 38 in the cylinder. Carried for 19 years by a federal officer he qualified with Magnum ammo monthly. I have shot nothing but full boat 125 grain Magnums in it. So far...nada. But that's just one gun.

Here's what I hear. The vast majority of cracked 19s are 19-5s, first model with the crush fit barrel. Coincidence? Maybe. A police armorer in a shop using 19s said he saw them crack with 158 Magnums as well as 125s. He said one cracked with 38 target ammo. Hmm...makes me wonder if it ain't the ammo at all. Could be the guns? He also noted that every cracked 19 was filthy. Shot a lot and not cleaned. He had a theory that carbon deposits in forcing cone caused hot spots that could lead to cracking. Very interesting idea. I can't argue with him. I keep my 19 meticulously clean. If you do the same, I think (think) you'll be fine with any ammo you choose to shoot. But of course, I can't guarantee anything.
 
You might want to Google the name of William H (Bill) Jordan.

He is credit with convincing Smith & Wesson to adapt its medium K-frame series revolver to accommodate the .357 Magnum cartridge, resulting in the (S&W Model 19 and S&W Model 66) "Combat Magnum" He is also credited with developing the 'Jordan' or 'Border Patrol' style of holster.

You would need to put a few thousand rounds through your revolver to wear it out. Using less than full power loads will lessen the chance of forcing cone problems.

And when you have an evening to yourself you might want to read "No Second Place Winners" written in 1964. If you a LEO it will be interesting reading.
 
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My first Smith & Wesson was a 6 inch Model 19. I carried it on duty for a while. Back then I hung around with a S&W employee. He used to load for several area PD's. He also got alot of S&W ammo from Alton then Rock Creek. I can tell you without a doubt, my Md 19 has had over 10,000 rounds of both .38 SPL and .357 Magnum ammo thru it. It did go back to the factory once, to have a target trigger and target hammer put on. Like Saxon Pig said, keep it clean and it won't let you down.
 
Thanjs to all who responded. I'm glad I finally joined this forum. I'm learning a lot already.
 
Bripro68 said:
The great interweb offers mixed feelings about this. Now that I joined here I can ask the experts. I hear too often that my model 19-4 is meant for 38s with the occasional 357. However I know it was built from the ground up for Bill to be a 357 on a K frame. What is the forums opinion? Thanks, Brian.
IMAG1731_zps52293b62.jpg
Click to expand...

Probably not, but why would you want to ?
 
Speaking form personal experience your shooting hand and forearm will give up the ghost before your M-19 does. So why beat yourself or your revolver up?

I shoot very warm 38 special ammo in my K frames 98% of the time and only enough .357 Magnum ammo to remind myself I really don't want to make a habit of doing so.

As others have suggested, if you feel the need to shoot smoking hot magnum ammo but an L frame revolver.
 
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