Endurance Package Installed on 29-2 "UPDATE"

243winxb · Jun 8, 2019

S&W M29-2 #N33668X 8 3/8" bbl. What was included in the upgrade? Parts and/or modifications? I did a search, didnt find a list. Thank you for all replys.

Bought new back in the day. Shot w296/23gr/250cast and Unique/10gr/250cast for many years.

The cylinder started rotating backwards a few years ago.
Finally sent back to factory on April 27, 2018. Estimate came in the mail on Friday the 13th. 7/13/18. Told about summer shutdown for the 2 weeks. In 2018, it was 20 July to 6 August .Delivered by FedEx to me on Aug 15, 2018. Took 3 months and 17 day.

The paper work lists the Endurance upgrade. The outward appearance still looks the same to me. I was surprised to see used parts returned.

Shoots fine now. Problem fixed.

It was my understanding when the package was first introduce. NO UPGRADES were to be done.

steelslaver · Jun 8, 2019

Unless the cuts in the cylinder where made longer and the bolt slot was also made longer so that a longer bolt could be installed the probably only replaced parts. New bolt, stronger bolt spring for cylinder lock up. New springs for extractor rod assy to make sure it engaged well. Plus a new trigger and hand to make sure it made itt to lock up.

I think tht the main thing about the endurance package was the longer stop bolt and cylinder stop cuts for it in cylinder.

I find it interesting that having the barrel turned back a thread and forcing cone cut back was all they charge you for from the appearance of the bill. Says endurance N/C
. It does not say it actually did the endurance package upgrade either. It says this is to acknowledge receipt of your order. It is not an acceptance or commitment by S&W.

bigggbbruce · Jun 8, 2019

steelslaver said:
Unless the cuts in the cylinder where made longer and the bolt slot was also made longer so that a longer bolt could be installed the probably only replaced parts. New bolt, stronger bolt spring for cylinder lock up.

Cylinder stop.. not bolt.

Protocall_Design · Jun 8, 2019

Part of the endurance package was to mill a slot in the frame behind the hand for a piece that blocks the bolt from moving forward under recoil. The hand for this has an extra long pivot pin that goes in a slot in the bolt blocker that is activated by the trigger being pulled. It is a brilliant and simple solution to a very real problem. This and the longer cylinder stop notch did the job.

BLUEDOT37 · Jun 9, 2019

243winxb said:
What was included in the upgrade?

Shot w296/23gr/250cast and Unique/10gr/250cast for many years.

The cylinder started rotating backwards a few years ago.

The paper work lists the Endurance upgrade. The outward appearance still looks the same to me.

It was my understanding when the package was first introduce. NO UPGRADES were to be done.

I'm surprised that with those stiff loads of H110 you didn't have endshake issues too. That's what my 29-2 developed & once I fixed the endshake it was back to normal.

I question the paper's wording too. Don't see how they could have done any Endurance type mods, (many couldn't be done) especially for that price.

The Endurance features were slowly added over a couple different revisions. If a revolver already had them there was nothing to modify. If they didn't they weren't added.

The features included: longer cylinder stop & notches, a bolt block, radiused studs, & cylinder yoke mod with heat treatment.

.

Protocall_Design said:
Part of the endurance package was to mill a slot in the frame behind the hand for a piece that blocks the bolt from moving backward under recoil. The hand for this has an extra long pivot pin that goes in a slot in the bolt blocker that is activated by the trigger being pulled. It is a brilliant and simple solution to a very real problem. This and the longer cylinder stop notch did the job.

Oddly not all N-frames, which have all the other Endurance features, will have this one. My new 610-3 does not, for example.

.
.
M329PD - bolt block not engaged, trigger forward
.

.
.
.

M329PD - bolt block engaged, pivoted up by rearward trigger
.

.

243winxb · Jun 9, 2019

Great info guys, ty. Bluedot37's photos take some of the guess work out of whats included in the Endurance Package.

243winxb · Jun 9, 2019

Opened my 29-2 to take some photo. Screws almost impossible to remove. Seen some red thread locker on the one hole.

I don't think it has a bolt block? Not sure if the circled pin is longer, new or not?

HamHands · Jun 17, 2019

BLUEDOT37 said:
I'm surprised that with those stiff loads of H110 you didn't have endshake issues too. That's what my 29-2 developed & once I fixed the endshake it was back to normal.

I question the paper's wording too. Don't see how they could have done any Endurance type mods, (many couldn't be done) especially for that price.

The Endurance features were slowly added over a couple different revisions. If a revolver already had them there was nothing to modify. If they didn't they weren't added.

The features included: longer cylinder stop & notches, a bolt block, radiused studs, & cylinder yoke mod with heat treatment.

.

Oddly not all N-frames, which have all the other Endurance features, will have this one. My new 610-3 does not, for example.

.
.
M329PD - bolt block not engaged, trigger forward
.

.
.
.

M329PD - bolt block engaged, pivoted up by rearward trigger
.

.

Stellar Explaination BlueDot! That is an accurate and excellent way to explain the Endurance Package in full definition and along with your pics of the bolt block area of the hand slot that is elongated/milled is very helpful. I knew almost everything you explained about as to exactly what the "EP" was beforehand but... I didn't know about the frame milling where the hand notch was done to block the bolt from moving/unlocking under recoil via blocking the bolt during the trigger pull initiation sequence. Thanks for that enlightening of that feature/part and for solidifying the other features and function of the "EP" even better than I had initially grasped as well.

I adore my .44Special and .44Magnums. I enjoy the heavy 300 and 305 grain factory loads from PRVI-Partizan, Underwood, and Buffalo Bore and shoot a lot of them. Of course I shoot 10 times as much of the PRVI 300's as they are much cheaper than the boutique loads; but they are on par with POA to POI so it translates into accurate shots and split time for when I "Woods-Carry" the Underwood 305 hard cast "Keith's"
without breaking the bank!

I only shoot these warm and heavy loads thru my "EP Equipped" .44Mag Smiths though because it would be a shame to do so with my M29-3 Lew Horton Special. I still run Hot .44Specials thru my M24-3 with Underwood's 255 grain "Keith" at a hair over 1,000fps as this load is downloaded 20% from the generally accepted Maximum Load for a .44Special which is: A 250grain pill @ 1200fps according to Skeeter Skelton's expansive work with the cartridge and the Smith M24.

Again, solid explanation and pics!

Dieseltech56 · Jun 17, 2019

Don't forget about the hardened yoke. This was the first endurance upgrade starting with the 29-4

243winxb · Jun 25, 2019

I would hope all current 44 mag models have the bugs worked out by now?

Hondo44 · Aug 17, 2019

243winxb said:
Opened my 29-2 to take some photo. Screws almost impossible to remove. Seen some red thread locker on the one hole.

I don't think it has a bolt block? Not sure if the circled pin is longer, new or not?

No, the pin midway up the hand is the original bolt block, not part of the endurance package. My 29 pre dash # has it.

In fact it came out and locked up my action. Pulled the side plate and figured out that it went in the hand, put it back in but also center punched the pin after installing it so it wouldn't come out again. That's when I figured out its function of keeping the lock bolt to the rear under recall. The hand must be up in firing position/trigger back for it to operate.

So it was upgraded to the more positive milled in block of the EP package shown above. Probably mine was not the only to fall out.

One other thing; the SCSW documents the longer cyl notches, longer cyl stop, and new bolt block were not added until the 29-5 in 1990, while only the new yoke retention system and floating hand were added to the 1987 29-3E and 1988 29-4. Of course as usual it's not likely that in every case the dash #s stamped on the gun will always match the design upgrades in the gun.

6string · Aug 18, 2019

Hondo44 said:
No, the pin midway up the hand is the original bolt block, not part of the endurance package. My 29 pre dash # has it.

In fact it came out and locked up my action. Pulled the side plate and figured out that it went in the hand, put it back in but also center punched the pin after installing it so it wouldn't come out again. That's when I figured out its function of keeping the lock bolt to the rear under recall. The hand must be up in firing position/trigger back for it to operate.

So it was upgraded to the more positive milled in block of the EP package shown above. Probably mine was not the only to fall out.

One other thing; the SCSW documents the longer cyl notches, longer cyl stop, and new bolt block were not added until the 29-5 in 1990, while only the new yoke retention system and floating hand were added to the 1987 29-3E and 1988 29-4. Of course as usual it's not likely that in every case the dash #s stamped on the gun will always match the design upgrades in the gun.

So, with that in mind, and with what Bluedot37 posted concerning the current bolt block, is that why the current production cylinder hand does not have the third pin?

Has anyone tried using a current production 2-pin hand on older S&Ws? (Not to suggest there's a valid reason for this, other than potential issues of parts availability.) I notice that the Power Custom aftermarket hand lacks the third pin, yet says it's for all S&Ws.

Hondo44 · Aug 22, 2019

6string,

I have no doubt that's the case.

The two pin hand would certainly work and unless someone tried some super hot macho loads, they'd never need nor miss the third pin heavy recoil protection. And that's likely why PC risks saying their two pin hand works in all S&Ws. 99% of the time it will work just fine.

H Richard · Aug 22, 2019

At what point did they go to the spring loaded yoke retention screw? I had a 29-3 without it.

armorer951 · Aug 22, 2019

Your original "old" hand (photo in post #1) has the third pin to assist in keeping the bolt in place (back) when the gun is cocked/fired.
Looks like they were concerned with the wear and tear on the springs, including the center pin spring, cyl stop spring, extractor spring, and the front locking bolt spring.....and the wear evident on the hook of the trigger, where it interfaces with the cylinder stop.

I'm not familiar with exactly what the "upgrade" entails on these older revolvers. To me, the "endurance package" was a redesign of some of the key components including the frame, and as such, cannot be retrofitted on an older N-frame. I may be mistaken, but I imagine they are just replacing springs and worn or altered parts like they always have when guns are submitted for evaluation and repairs.

Hondo44 · Aug 22, 2019

H Richard said:
At what point did they go to the spring loaded yoke retention screw? I had a 29-3 without it.

The Model 29-3E in 1987 at the beginning of the Endurance Package improvements, only the new yoke retention system and floating hand were added. (more in Post #11).

It initially appeared to me that the spring loaded yoke retention screw was to speed up production and mitigate labor cost because the yoke and screw no longer needed to be fit together. I still believe that's true because every revolver model and frame size received that improvement about the same time including the low recoiling J frame .22s.

Hondo44 · Aug 22, 2019

6string said:
So, with that in mind, and with what Bluedot37 posted concerning the current bolt block, is that why the current production cylinder hand does not have the third pin?

Has anyone tried using a current production 2-pin hand on older S&Ws? (Not to suggest there's a valid reason for this, other than potential issues of parts availability.) I notice that the Power Custom aftermarket hand lacks the third pin, yet says it's for all S&Ws.

It just occurred to that the Power Custom aftermarket hand would not work in a 29-4 and later End Package equipped 44 Mag.

That's because the EP bolt block must be actuated by a longer pin (the larger diameter pin) in the base of the new two pin hand. And if their 2 pin hand included that longer pin it would be too long for any revolver that doesn't have the new bolt block!

Nightowl · Aug 22, 2019

Hondo44 said:
It just occurred to that the Power Custom aftermarket hand would not work in a 29-4 and later End Package equipped 44 Mag.

That's because the EP bolt block must be actuated by a longer pin (the larger diameter pin) in the base of the new two pin hand. And if their 2 pin hand included that longer pin it would be too long for any revolver that doesn't have the new bolt block!

HA!! That explains why several of the new hands I have bought have the long pin and I have to file a bunch off to fit my older N frames.

S.B. · Aug 24, 2019

243winxb said:
S&W M29-2 #N33668X 8 3/8" bbl. What was included in the upgrade? Parts and/or modifications? I did a search, didnt find a list. Thank you for all replys.

Bought new back in the day. Shot w296/23gr/250cast and Unique/10gr/250cast for many years.

The cylinder started rotating backwards a few years ago.
Finally sent back to factory on April 27, 2018. Estimate came in the mail on Friday the 13th. 7/13/18. Told about summer shutdown for the 2 weeks. In 2018, it was 20 July to 6 August .Delivered by FedEx to me on Aug 15, 2018. Took 3 months and 17 day.

The paper work lists the Endurance upgrade. The outward appearance still looks the same to me. I was surprised to see used parts returned.

Shoots fine now. Problem fixed.

It was my understanding when the package was first introduce. NO UPGRADES were to be done.

If you're asking if S&W included the endurance package in your repairs, I doubt it, I've never known S&W to lengthen the bolt stop slots in older cylinder?
Steve

243winxb · Oct 15, 2021

The cylinder started rotating backwards again. Fired maybe 300 rounds. Load- 250 gr cast with W296- 23 grs. did it 2 times out of 20 rounds.

Other loads 250gr/10 grs Unique & 214 gr- 23.5 w296 the cylinder stayed put.

So, is this load to hot?? 250 gr cast with W296- 23 grs. WLP, Remington Brass? Thank you.

May be time to buy a Ruger? But at age 76, do i really need another 44?

Endurance Package Installed on 29-2 "UPDATE"

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