What causes bluing to turn " Plum "??

ditrina

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I have just accquired a 28-2 that the barrel has turned "Plum", just the barrel not the rest of the gun.. looks perfect.. but plum??
Can anyone tell me why? this happens.. I have seen it once or twice on other Smiths..
THX
Sal
 
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Per my learned collegue (johnlevick ) the cause is properly attributed to silica in the steel..


"that plum coloration is a result of a slight excess of silica in the steel,and not WD40. "

The Internet has also spawned the WD-40 caused it..

I share John's skepticisim about that particular cause..

I've used it extensively as a wipe down agent without a problem.
 
bluing turns plum

Hot tank bluing in nitrate salts is a controlled rusting process where the desired dark blue/black color is achieved by carefully controlled temperatures and solution concentrations. If the operator deviates even slightly from these controlled temperatures and solution concentrations, the result is plum or reddish color that can change as it ages. Bluing solutions wear out or get contaminated when used. Contamination occurs from drippings from rinse and cleaning baths. Improper temperature maintenance can leave the black oxide layer porous and subject to further microrusting as it ages, with resulting color changes. Worn out solutions come from failure to carefully monitor solution chemistry or rushed production where the bluing bath is pushed beyond normal use.

Since S&W (and other manufacturers) do batch bluing of parts, not complete guns, there will be the occasional mis-match of blued parts. Usually not enough to cause inspection rejection or make customers howl, but enough to notice.
 
Gunsmiths journals and references indicate strong connection between using WD-40 as a rust prevenative on unblued steel to erratic coloration after bluing. It's the silicone oil in WD-40 and not "silica" that is the culprit. Silica is the main ingredient in common beach sand. What is it doing in steel?
 
Gunsmiths journals and references indicate strong connection between using WD-40 as a rust prevenative on unblued steel to erratic coloration after bluing. It's the silicone oil in WD-40 and not "silica" that is the culprit. Silica is the main ingredient in common beach sand. What is it doing in steel?


Silicon - MSN Encarta


Silicon, symbol Si, semimetallic element that is the second most common element on Earth, after oxygen. The atomic number of silicon is 14. Silicon is in group 14 (or IVa) of the periodic table (see Periodic Law). It was first isolated from its compounds in 1823 by the Swedish chemist Baron Jöns Jakob Berzelius. The element’s name comes from the Latin word for flint, a mineral that contains silicon.

Silicon is prepared as a brown amorphous powder or as gray-black crystals. It is obtained by heating silica, or silicon dioxide (SiO2), with a reducing agent, such as carbon or magnesium,

Silicon is used in the steel industry as a constituent of silicon-steel alloys. In steelmaking, molten steel is deoxidized by the addition of small amounts of silicon; ordinary steel contains less than 0.03 percent of silicon. Silicon steel, which contains from 2.5 to 4 percent silicon, is used in making the cores of electrical transformers because the alloy exhibits low hysteresis (see Magnetism). A steel alloy, known as duriron, containing about 15 percent silicon, is hard, brittle, and resistant to corrosion; duriron is used in industrial equipment that comes in contact with corrosive chemicals. Silicon is also used as an alloy in copper, brass, and bronze.

http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1114

Most silicon is produced as a ferroalloy either ferrosilicon or silicon manganese, which is used exclusively in steel making. Silicon, as ferroalloy, is the most important deoxidiser in steel making. Semiconductor silicon is made mostly by reacting powdered crude metal with a gaseous mixture of hydrogen and hydrogen chloride in a fluidised bed. The main product SiHCl3 is fractionally distilled then reduced by hydrogen and is then deposited on a pre silicon filament, which is heated to about 1150°C. Further purification may be done by zone refining if required. Dopants are generally added subsequent to crystal growth.




John,

Respectfully, I hope this answers your question.
Patrick
 
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I have just accquired a 28-2 that the barrel has turned "Plum", just the barrel not the rest of the gun.. looks perfect.. but plum??
Can anyone tell me why? this happens.. I have seen it once or twice on other Smiths..
THX
Sal


ditrina/sal ,

Just for the record( and as a side note) WD-40 is not my 1st choice for any firearms applications.
I use it as a quick wipe for a wet gun in the field..always seems to be around .
That being said: it is not IMHO the culprit in the the plum color on most smiths.
Others respectfully will disagree..

Thanks.
Patrick.
 
Gunsmiths journals and references indicate strong connection between using WD-40 as a rust prevenative on unblued steel to erratic coloration after bluing. It's the silicone oil in WD-40 and not "silica" that is the culprit. Silica is the main ingredient in common beach sand. What is it doing in steel?

John
I don't believe there's silicone in WD 40 as it's made from animal fats. WD 40 is ~ "Water Displacement 40th attempt". I use it as a cleaner and not for lubrication.

This is off their website:

(quote)
What does WD-40 contain?
While the ingredients in WD-40 are secret, we can tell you what WD-40 does NOT contain. WD-40 does not contain silicone, kerosene, water, wax, graphite, chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), or any known cancer-causing agents. (quote)

Y Model 12's were known for the receiver turning plum and some believe the plum color is an indication of a possible re-blue. I've saw cylinders on a few S&W revolvers that were a tad plum color and was doubtful they were reblued. There's probably no and iron-clad rule to the plum color. It seems to appear years later??

Regards:
Rod
 
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Plum Crazy

I noticed my model 29-3 unfortunately had a plum colored barrel when I bought it last year.
The price was right and its not a show piece but a shooter. (Although it is in excellent condition).
What can I say?....Im Plum Crazy.
BTW, in ordinary incandescent light it is virtually unnoticeable.
Some bright lights and flash photography bring it out.

Here are a few shots of the same gun , It really shows in some. Others not so much.
They were all taken with the same camera on different days with different backgrounds.
It is all a mystery to me.
Cheers

CIMG3309.jpg


CIMG3293.jpg


CIMG3308-1.jpg


CIMG3340.jpg
 
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I have a model 17-4 that has some plum color on the cylinder. The gun was in 99% condition when I bought it and quite frankly I wasn't bothered by the slight coloration.
 
Hello
I sent a friend to a refinisher I knew to have his Pre-War Heavy Duty refinished. A Year afterwards, it's cylinder started turning Plum in color. My friend told me of it, I contacted the refinisher and he refinished the cylinder again so now it match's his revolver. I asked the refinisher why this happened and he explained the bluing salts got just a little too weak and the fact they must not have had the cylinder Hot enough when they blued it, is what attributed to it's Plum color. He shared with me that the Older S&W revolver's had much more Nickel content in their steel and this is very hard to penetrate with Modern Bluing slats if they are off, or the part is not hot enough to accept them fully...:) Hammerdown
 
WD-40 wouldn't explain why my old model Blackhawk has a plum-colored rear sight. Rear sight only!


Hello Enfield
Interesting you would mention this about your Ruger. A good friend of mine was visiting the other day, and we were discussing his Older Flat gate Single six revolver. He shared with me that the frame of it has some "Red streaks" through it which he explained to me that they Looked Like Lightning Bolts in nature and he was told by Ruger to send it back and they would re blue it. I guess he elected not to, but asked what would cause it ? Ruger responded telling him, that early on they took the Hot Cast Investment Ruger frames and Placed them in The Silica Sand when they were cooling them prior to Bluing, They somehow Picked up some of the sand and kept it in the steel. Once they were blued these Red streaks appeared. Somehow my Friends Gun made final inspection and got out the door without being noticed. The Silica sand Process was some how changed to eliminate this Red streak issue since...:) Hammerdown
 
I had a Beretta pocket pistol, WW2 era, that had the blue frame and the slide was most definitely plum colored. The finish was a bit worn at the time, I elected to have it reblued. When I got it back the finish was perfect but the slide more or less retained it's plum thru the refinishing effort. I was told it was due to the hardness of the steel but it could just as well been from some impurity in the steel, otherwise wouldn't the refinish have changed it? I notice all the Beretta pistols of that era have the plum slide, except for perhaps the 4UT German contract pistols which have a true blue slide.
 
First thank you all for the input..this place is great!!

Engine49guy..the picture of the Model 29 is EXACTLY what my 28-2 looks like.. even color.. no streaks.. no marks.. just PLUM..

It appears that there is no "harm", just a color variation.. I can live with that..:)
Thank you all again..
Sal
 
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Seems like some are confusing silica , silicon , and silicone , 3 different things. Hi-silicon content alloy steels are used in hi-stress applications. It also helps molten steel fill molds in investment castings , but makes bluing tough. Bill Ruger adressed this in the book , Ruger and his Guns. It tends to take a plum/purple hue.
 
I've also been told by many knowledgeable people that a "plum" color on any blued steel S&W meant you were looking at a non-factory re-bluing job. Recently, I purchased a used 150 series Ruger Security Six (the 150 series was the first edition of the Security Six line), and there are definite plum highlights on the frame and barrel - though I seriously doubt this pistol has been reblued by anyone.

Regards,

Dave
 
Funny how different folks view guns.

Generally speaking plum colors on a older model Ruger single action is a desirable feature. Hammerdowns friends gun with the lighting strikes would get many collectors drooling, as it is both uncommon and sought after...

giz
 
Chrome-moly steel with a slightly higher chrome content will take a different tone too. I once made some scope bases at work using a few pieces of scrap A-2 tool steel. One piece was actually D-2 tool steel , a steel with a higher chromium content. That too took a plum/purple color compared to the other pieces.
 
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