AirLite recoil problems

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to gun-ownership and totally new to this forum. I carry a .357 AirLite PD, practice with a .22 AirLite, and also do some limited practice with a Ruger SP 101. I'm really hoping some of you may be able to address a question.

The problem is that the AirLite I carry is beyond brutal for me to shoot, even with the Pachmayr Gripper grip currently installed on it. It is so painful that I generally won't go through more than one cylinder, and it's miserable to do even that. I tried firing it more when I was first training, and ended up with a hand injury that ended all shooting for about six months.

I see that Pachmayr also markets a Gripper Decelerator which they claim addresses the recoil problem a bit better. Does anyone have any experience with this, and if so, what do you think?

Also, is anyone aware of a grip that would give even more recoil protection? I'm looking for the friendliest possible grip that I can find, as my hand is apparently unusually sensitive to this kind of injury, but I'd like to be able to practice enough to be proficient if I ever find myself in a self-defense situation.

Any input would be most appreciated. Thanks much!

Elizabeth

Elizabeth,
Welcome to the forum.
You might try Uncle Mikes combat grips, they're longer and have room for your pinkie which should help with the torque. My trigger finger gets hammered by the bottom of the trigger guard as the gun rocks in my hand. I suggest you practice with .38 specials, .357 Magnums are brutal in a 12oz gun.

air lite

the air lite guns are just bad to the bone, i have a 342 i carry in my pocket in 38 special and it is bad ,i can not imagine your gun in 357 mag.
they are guns for carry and not for shooting alot. if you get to big of a grip it will defeat the purpose of a small carry gun.

Hi, and welcome! I second more practice with .38 Special loads, and the occasional cylinder of .357s. You may want to try one of the hotter .38 +P loads or the Speer Short Barrel .357 round for "social use". Larger grips may help but are harder to conceal if you are carrying the gun. Also consider using shooting gloves for extended practice sessions.

Elizabeth,
Welcome, and +1 for what those first posters said,
In addition, see if you can get some really light-recoiling 38 Spl. ammo,
either locally, or on the internet. Get some really light, easy shooting stuff, and then you can decide just how "hot" a round is right for you.
Everybody reacts to recoil differently. As S&W CHAD & Ronnie were saying, there's some pretty darn good 38 Personal Defense ammo on the market, you don't HAVE to shoot magnums in that gun.
You'll know when you find the right practise ammo.
TACC1

My novice status shows. The carry-AirLite has .357 stamped on the barrel, which is the only reason I referred to it that way. I shoot only .38s with it; 357s are fairly awful even with my Ruger, so I don't even want to think about what they'd be like in the AirLite.

I'm currently practicing with the lightest loads I can find, so varying the grip is the only other thing I can do, I think. I can manage around 150 shots a session with the .22, followed by 10-15 with the Ruger. I just generally glare balefully at the "real" AirLite and don't fire it at all, while appreciating the light weight which is its one and only redeeming quality. I figure if I ever end up in a jam, hurting my hand will be the last thing on my mind, but it would be nice to actually practice with it a bit in the interim.

Meanwhile, I'll go research some of the ideas already posted. Thanks from me and my beleaguered shooting hand.

Unfortunately it is a set of tradeoffs everyone makes when selecting a firearm for carry purposes. Type of firearm (revolver, semi), caliber, size, action... The list goes on and on. The lighter the weapon, the more diffiecutl it is going to be to control the recoil. As other ls have mentioned some different grips may help, but might sacrifice some concealability. Again, trade-offs.

Personally I settled on a 640-1 / 357 for my snubbie. It handles well and the recoil, even w/ 357s full house rounds, is managable for me. However it is heavy enough that true pocket carry isn't really an option, so it'll have to be IWB carried. But that was a tradeoff I was willing to make (not to mention the price was right).

In the end you maybe better served with another weapon you can actually tolerate shooting (Ruger LCR comes to mind). Just something to consider.

For practice ammo, check the 100gr WC reloads that Mastercast sells (www.mastercast.net). They are almost in the .22 range of recoil and sound. Downright wimpy! (I use their 148gr WCs for range work) As for SD, carry either Speer +p 135gr Gold Dot SB, or Remington's +p 158gr LSWCHP, their version of the FBI load. Unlike the Federal and Winchester versions, the Remington probably will expand from a snubby, which is why it is in my Airweight (www.hipowersandhandguns.net). In a real situation, I expect I won't even notice the recoil. But at the range, I do indeed.

Alternatively, trade that Airlite in for an all-steel snubby. In any event, welcome.

Cordially, Jack

Unfortunately, I think that ronnie gore wrote the best words on the subject, at least from my POV.

AirLitenewbie said:

The problem is that the AirLite I carry is beyond brutal for me to shoot, even with the Pachmayr Gripper grip currently installed on it. It is so painful that I generally won't go through more than one cylinder, and it's miserable to do even that. I tried firing it more when I was first training, and ended up with a hand injury that ended all shooting for about six months.

Click to expand...

Re-reading your post, I would seriously consider moving to a different firearm considering your injury in the past. It is going to have to be heavier to soak up some of the recoil, so an all steel J-Frame or LCR might do the trick.

It isn't fun if it hurts to shoot. Sure, a carry gun might not be the MOST comfortable gun to shoot at the range, but this situation seems extreme.

Big rubber grips are heavy, defeating the purpose of the Airlite. My biggest problem with my 340PD and 360PD, starting out, was the damage done to my trigger finger. Really took a beating. I used a bandaid for cushioning for a while, then learned to forget about textbook hand positions, just grab the handle as hard as I could and stick my trigger finger all the way through. Bingo. No more blood. Then I tried a bunch of factory ammo. Best for recoil were the Speer +P 125 GDSB, which chrono'd just over 900fps, and the GDSB 357 135 giving just over 1000fps. I wanted even less recoil, though, and couldn't afford to shoot the factory stuff one way or the other. I settled on a handload of 6.5 AA2 under a 125jsp for right at 1000fps, and very tolerable recoil. I actually enjoy shooting the guns now, and usually do at least 50rds weekly. I made a bad shot at the range the other day and killed a 4x4 board. My load blew completely through and kept on going, so I know it can do the PD job for me.

When the AirLite was recommended to me, it seemed like the best choice at the time (not that I knew a thing about researching options then). As it happens, a good friend who is helping me sort out this problem actually has a Ruger LCR and offered to let me try it. I declined, figuring one light gun is as nasty as the next, but now I'm wondering if it might actually be better. I will try it the next time I have an opportunity. If changing guns would improve this situation, I wouldn't hesitate to do that. As RHINOWSO also noted, this truly is beyond the usual ouchy kind of issue and is well into just-trying-to-prevent-reinjury territory.

For what it's worth, it's made me feel better each time one of you has confirmed that AirLites are indeed nasty little things and that it isn't just me. Thanks for the great support and info.

Elizabeth

I am truly a veteran handgun shooter and shoot everything from .22 rimfire to .375 JDJ. However, I draw the line at an Airlite revolver. No one has accused me of being wimp but the Airlite's are just too much of a good thing (or rather, too LITTLE of a good thing).

My daily carry is the S&W 642 with Plus P 158 gr H.P. (FBI load) but I practice with a 148 gr Wadcutter. I have #305 Crimson Trace grips and they work quite well.

The few ounces of extra weight in the 642 make quite a difference in felt recoil over the Airlite revolvers.

FWIW
Dale53

Dale53 said:

The few ounces of extra weight in the 642 make quite a difference in felt recoil over the Airlite revolvers.

Click to expand...

Surprising, but definitely true, in my experience with a 642 and RB Magna grips.

BTW, the Ruger LCR is also tolerable.

The grip you need is the Crimson Trace LG-405 it is specifically designed with an "air-pocket" on the backstrap to cushion the web of your hand against recoil. They are also nearly as small as the factory rubber boot grips.

I put a pair on my 340PD and now I can shoot the Gold-Dot short-barrel Hollow points in .357 magnum without pain (though I don't shoot too many at once and I am not really recoil sensitive).

When shooting 130gr practice .38's recoil is stout, but tolerable.

I agree that the light-weight alloy guns may be too light for you no matter what grips you try, but the LG 405's are the best grip out there for the ultra-lights.

If you try them and the recoil is still too much, I would suggest moving to a steel gun and investing in a good quality belt and holster. A quality belt and holster can make carrying a heavy gun easy.

There is no point in carrying a gun for defense if the recoil makes it impossible for you to use it effectively.

Anyway, that is my .02 - good luck with your search.

~i8mtm

Consider a different gun, especially if the one you have is so painful for you to shoot you don't want to practice with it. The day may come that you have to use it and you don't want to hesitate to shoot because inside you're afraid of the painful recoil.

First of all, welcome to the forum.

For what it's worth, I have been shooting for 60 years. I carried a .41 magnum as a duty side arm for many years.

Presently, I carry a stainless steel J-frame .357 mag, 640-1, loaded with standard .38's much of the time.

My wife carried a Medium frame .38 as a duty weapon for years.

We both have aluminum framed .38s, 442 and 642, for when hot weather precludes anything very heavy, but they are always loaded with standard .38 loads.

I wouldn't even consider shooting a .357 in one of those exotic metal airweights. My Momma raised some dummies, but they was my sister!!

So many new shooters are done a real disservice by those advising an unobtainium snubbie as a first gun.

Try some of the new standard .38 loads, or find a gun that is comfortable and fun to shoot. That Ruger is a good place to start.

Bad guy or paper target, your mind knows that your hand and wrist are gonna hurt when you pull the trigger and your body will react accordingly.

You can't defend yourself adequately if you hate/fear to pull the trigger because of pain.

Keep us posted on what you do and good luck.

.

Hi,

As a long time handgun fan, competitor and hunter, I also am disappointed that someone would recommend the Airlite revolvers for novice shooters. What a GREAT way to discourage someone and also make 'em develop fears and flinches which destroy that person's potential to become a fine shooter!

Frankly, I would neither recommend an Airlite to anyone, nor own one myself . . . and I shoot some big boomers.

IMHO, the Airlite fails in its purpose, for fast and accurate followup shots are always a distinct need in a gunfight when using a handgun . . . even a big bore flamethrower. This problem ONLY gets worse once one installs "rubbers" to cushion the brutal recoil and twist of the gun in one's hand.

Two problems with this idea:

1. The gun ceases as being really small and the synthetic grips grab on the fabric and encourage the gun to "print" more too.

2. The gun torques even MORE with rubber grips . . . and the gun is allowed to twist and slam your hand and finger even more . . . since the grips are not a solid part of the gun!!! This twisting and handgun flex makes it harder to keep the gun perfectly in the grip . . . and this affects ACCURATE and fast followup shots.


MY RECOMMENDATIONS . . .

1. If you insist on keeping the Airlite, try the stock wood grips that were so long a part of the S&W J-frame's past . . . and couple those grips with a Tyler T-grip. I know this sounds totally wrong, but consider this . . .

The combination will give you a firm shape that will mold to your hand so that the gun will NOT slam your hand . . . allowing the felt recoil to be harmlessly transferred directly back through your hand, arm and shoulder to be dissipated through the body (when combined with the proper FIRM grip)

2. This "proper, firm grip" requires that you grip the gun high on the backstrap . . . as high as possible. The higher you get towards the bore axis of the gun (which will still be slightly above and in front of the hand), the less muzzle flip and sting . . . and the better control and speed! Many new shooters don't know to do this!

Conversely, gripping a handgun low means the barrel is higher above the hand, and the fulcrum effect on muzzle flip during recoil exponentially increases the felt recoil on the poor shooter!

Those two recommendations are good no matter the gun! Also, I'd recommend you get some competent local instruction. A good instructor can do wonders to your skills and enjoyment of shooting!


Here's my ultimate recommendation . . .

Trade the Airlite for an Airweight!

IMHO, the Airweight is the epitome in concealable/lightweight/SHOOTABLE handguns! They only weigh about 15 oz. . . . and are arguably the perfect trade-off when weight is a concern. Those extra few ounces in the pocket are not noticeable . . . but it surely makes the gun shoot and handle better by a huge amount!

Here's my "always" pocket gun, a Model 37 Airweight, with the kind of stock grips and the T-grip I recommended. It has satisfied folks for many years . . . and for many great reasons. I've tried this gun with "rubbers" and it ain't as comfortable!



Hope this helps . . .

I use the Crimson Trace LG405 grips on my 340PD and the recoil with .38 Speer Short Barrel is manageable. My PD has never seen a magnum and I would never try to shoot a long session with it. That is not its purpose. I practice with my model 60 and just shoot enough with the 340PD for familiarization. If you have a social need for the gun, you will not likely notice the pain in your hand. Don't give up on it. You may carry it a lifetime and never have to use it. If you need it, it will do its job. Compare that to lugging a steel gun around for the rest of your life or worse, compare that to having no gun because the steel gun was too heavy to mess with. My PD is there all the time.

ETA: I disagree with the position that fear of hurting your hand would affect your use of the gun in an emergency. I got in a fistfight for my life once and it never occurred to me what the big goon's teeth might do to the back of my hand when I belted him. As a matter of fact he punched me nearly silly and I don't remember feeling anything until about a half hour after the fight was over. I am sure I can empty the PD into a threat if need be because I can empty it into a target. But I'm not going to load up and do five more because it hurts.