could not stand to look at the model 60 pro with the rear sight not milled straight with the frame any more, even after fixing the clocked barrel myself, so I traded it off and ordered a 649, well guess what crocked sight ( clocked barrel not screwed in tight enough!) and the weird thing is the trigger leans so far to the left that it feels strange when you pick it up and place your finger on the trigger?

thats FOUR new guns in two months that should not have left the factory! I am through with s&w no more of my money! as bad as taurus is there still a better gun than what s&w is currently putting out, and that is pathetic.
I wish others luck and hope all is well with there guns, but I am done with the so called master gunsmiths at S&W! I would be afraid to let these people change the oil on a push mower.

Treerat, sorry to hear about your problems...

I too am having a round of bad luck with a S&W product. Mine is a two month old BG38 Bodyguard 38 revolver (one of the new design snubbies). The gun is on it's second trip back to S&W for repairs in the two months since new. The first time the action locked up and this time light primer strikes were causing misfires. Regardless what they do with the gun, it will have to leave my collection since I will never trust it to function if called on. Two months since new!

I was thinking maybe a "standard" J-model as a replacement for this gun and when I looked at a 642 at my local gun shop I found something odd. I noticed the star extractor was not symetrical! The arms of the star (between the cylinders) were not all the same length!

Is that normal? My other S&W handguns all have very symetrical stars, but this brand new 642 had a couple of the arms which were much longer than the others. I guess it shouldn't affect case ejection, but it made me wonder about their quality control.

I'm beginning to think I need to go to another manufacturer for my "snubbie" needs.

Edmo

I have not bought too many revolvers in the past couple of years. My last revolver purchased was a 686+ 3 inch. Had a issue with the ejector rod backing out. Could have fixed it myself but sent it in. Came back perfect! I have bought several pistols from them in the past couple of years. Couldn't be happier. I have numerous revolvers that I have acquired over 30 years and am very happy. You might want to look at Colt revolvers. They are a step up from Smiths. My only complaint with Colt's is they turn the wrong way! I still want a Python.

I have a 36-1 3" which is a great carry. I didn't want to seem like a smart *** in my last post. I have contemplated a stainless J frame snubby for a carry. I have enough resources now.

.......except for Single Action Armies and New Services, SAY WHAAAAT?

treerat,

I too am sorry to hear these things. I'm sure I would feel exactly the same as you do.

I'm wondering if you have tried to find any older, used Smiths? I have eight Smith revolvers, all of them older models, and all are excellent guns. Whenever I look to buy a gun, this is the route I take, and I haven't been disappointed.

Best wishes,
Andy

Absolutely.....seek and purchase the older Smith's. I don't ever consider purchasing a new gun.

firearm purchasing tip....................buy em old......keep em forever.

Several years ago S&W changed to a "squared" ejector plate and cylinder recess, presumably to cut a couple of steps out of the manufacturing process. In five shot revolvers the arms of the star can look like they are of random lengths. That's the actual design, not manufacturing slop.

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David Wilson

Yes...I have a beautiful 640-1 that is as well put together as any S&W post war gun I have seen...including the dozen or so 27-2's I have owned, and it has this 'feature', which is pretty obviously due to the five shot cylinder dimensions. The angles of the cuts on the ends of the arms are also different.

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

I think there should be a seperate forum, just for new misfit guns.....

I too am tired of S&W and their lock, poor CS and ill fitted guns. If any consolation to anyone, I dumped all of my S&W stock yesterday (that has been in the negative for so long) and am no longer an "owner". I may pick up an old model in the future but the desire is waning.

Brought a new 686+ home two weeks ago, and its perfect. Fit and finish is excellent and action is classic S&W.

I think I've commented before on the state of poor QC that seems to be plagueing ALL gun makers right now.
I certainly don't have any answers,but these things simply should not be happening. I most certainly will be sticking with older proven guns until it's a certainty that this has ended.
When that may be is anybody's guess. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

Bought new Model 60 (1975) no problems; bought used Model 19-4 (1975/76ish?) no problems. Bought new 627 (late 2010) it has obvious flaws. In 2 weeks I pick up a M29-4 used, I will post my finding after some time with it. I'll have four S&W's and they are the ones that suit my shooting hobby fine. If they have some issues I'll address that and try to keep and be happy with them. My S&W collection will stop at 4, and it's not a quality control issue, it's just that 4 is enough for me.

Sorry about your troubles. Don't give up on them yet.
I have owned 7 new guns with the lock and I have to say they all were all excellent revolvers. The fit and finish and triggers are top notch. Accuracy was as it should be.They are all N frames. I like the new guns and the lock doesn't bother me at all.

I needed a light weight carry revolver. I bought a Taurus Ultra Lite for about 1/2 of what they wanted for a Smith.
Its not nearly the gun my 26 year old 686 is. The perceived appearance of quality is not there. The first 5 shots I took with the Taurus were inside the 7 ring at 10 yards however. So it'll do as a carry/beater.

these stories are exactly why i won't buy new smiths. they have sent quality control on an extended vacation,never to return.

I haven't bought any new Smiths because of the seemingly larger amount of complaints. Just several used guns that are as near a perfect gun as anyone could ask for. I did buy a new Ruger SR9 that wouldnt shoot within a 7" circle at 7yrds, had a gritty trigger that was not consistant - traded it off. I bought a Ruger SP101 revolver and it is every bit as good as a Smith, and all the Ruger revolvers I have seen look very good and they are cheaper than the new Smiths. I think all the problems with Smith revolvers stem from the computer controlled machines that they use now and lack of the old timers in the assembly area. Maybe 10-20 years from now all these problems will have been fixed and we can buy them as "used" guns that we will be satisified with.

I'm sorry for your troubles. I love S&W, but my earliest revolver was manufactured in 1970.

I bought a new mod 60 about 1992-94 and one cylinder would key hole bullets at 25 yards. Bought one more new one, an airweight bodyguard about 2000 and it has been great. My other 50 or so Smiths are pre 1970 and are a pleasure to own and shoot. You were buying the correct brand of handgun, just the wrong model year.

Just a theory and by no means is it an excuse that fixes anything, but do you guys think all these gun makers are running into QC problems due to the fact that gun sales are at an all time high? I just read that last year ALONE, in the US, there were some 10.8 million handgun purchases...in one year!! Now, that figure doesn't even take into account multiple gun purchases at one time. and doesn't take into account private or gunshow purchases...which typically aren't always new stock anyhow....but the point remains.

I'm just wondering if all the makers are running around with the heads cut off trying to fill orders and contracts and sales at the expense of letting less than perfect guns get out the door. It seems they are more concentrated on getting guns out and letting the consumer send fixes back in than simply taking extra time and control to catch them before they leave....what you think??

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God Bless Our Troops.

Whoa...why are you injecting common sense into this whine fest? I get Treerat's issues, but some of this is ridiculous.

Again, sorry for your luck. I have had only one new S&W revolver. It was a model 10-14. I did not have any problems but the revolver was no way as nice as my older ones. I since sold the revolver. All of the S&W handguns I own now are 20 years and older. I doubt that I will ever buy a S&W new again. But I can say the same thing about Ruger too. Rugers older handguns are much better than the new ones made now.
Its sad to say that quality has left most gun companies. All gun companies care about now is cranking out a lot of guns to sell but not caring whether they work or not.
Regards,
Howard

well....in your past writings you no longer buy ruger because they are not up to your standards...now smith&wesson....i guess that leaves rossi,taurus,charter arms and the like

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

OK. Bye bye. See you later.

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Centennial Every Day

Yes, I think S&W is getting caught up with things they are not suited for. Take the polymer guns for example. The M&P looks nice but has a malfunction with the slide closing when you insert the magazine. It is not supposed to do it. Many of the people on this forum think its a great feature and S&W has said that the gun is malfunctioning and they can't do anything about it, so, oh well, we just wanted you to know that we know its a pile. The ****** thing is, they are not doing anything to fix the problem. They are just still putting a product out on the market that they know damn well is not working right. I bought the Glock instead. I really did want the M&P but not if it does not work the way iit was designed to work. I wish S&W would just cut their losses on the plastic and go back to what they do best, make a quality firearm that I can pass onto my sone when I pass away. and he when its his turn.

We ALL want a Python! Polished stainless 4", please.

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

I have bought several new (and used) guns over the last couple of years and so have my friends. There is so much of an increase in demand that in order to keep production up, I believe that quality control has suffered. My local dealer claims that he is selling five times the number of guns than he did two years ago. Between my friends and I, we have had to send back new Glock Gen4s, new Kahrs, new Smith & Wessons, new Berettas, new Taurus and new Kal Techs. I believe that Glock has a real problem with the 9mm Gen4s. We keep wanting smaller carry guns and we want them as accurate and reliable as the full-size models. Another thing that has changed is that although Kahr openly says that their guns need a 200 round break-in period, most other brands used to claim that they were ready out of the box. I currently find this to be very false and this newer breed of guns needs at least 200 and probably 500 rounds before they run as smooth as the older generation of guns did. I must say that my new M&P which only has 280 rounds through it has been very reliable and accurate. I have only had one fte, but the trigger needs to smooth out a little.
I do believe that ammunition as a whole is getting better, but I have noticed a big drop off in the power and accuracy of the budget Federal rounds.

Sorry, just my opinion.

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USN Ret-M&P 9 M2, 9C, Shield 9

Every manufacturer has glitches. The mag closure thing has long since been fixed. Frankly, the striker issue was much more serious. It has also been fixed. There are thousands of M&Ps successfully in service in LE. I have three which have a combined +/- 9,000 rounds through them with zero drama. They were manufactured between 2006 and 2010.

Spend enough time on the internet forums and you can find something wrong with anything.

The last new handgun I purchased was an S&W Performance Center Model 67 F-Comp for my wife. Fit, finish, accuracy were perfect. Can't say the same for many of the "regular" production guns I look at periodically at the shops. Heck, the last couple of 617s I've seen I could spot defects from ten feet away -- very crude-looking. I hate to think we have to pay the Performance Center premium just to get a well-made product, but I'm begining to think so. As far as Ruger goes, it seems like I've noticed the same issues with the double-action guns, but not the Blackhawks -- could just be me, though.

There is a reason the Colt stopped selling their double action revolvers. They were expensive to make, went out of time easily, and the later ones had really poor trigger actions. I have shot several. Uggh!
They look nice, though.

How true!

Two new model J frames purchased in the last month and a Taurus, no problems from any of them.

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M66, M&P 360, 642, M85 UL/Ti

Pythons are nice. Got one from the custom shop in 1980...Mostly lives in the safe.......My Smiths make the noise.

5 Smiths with the lock......No problems with any of them.

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S&W Accumulator

Yep. Bought a new Anaconda(4") in 45 LC when they were first announced. Pretty on the outside. VERY HEAVY. And loose as **** on the inside. Plus leaded to beat %*!# with all lead loads that ran fine through my Smiths. Its long gone.

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S&W Accumulator

From the OP ... "after fixing the clocked barrel myself"

Congratulations, you just invalidated the pistol's warranty.

From the OP ... "thats FOUR new guns in two months"

Did you send them all back to be repaired with a letter to S&W explaining that you are extremely displeased re: the company's QC? Or did you simply get rid of them without giving S&W the chance to make things right? The original post indicates the first pistol was not sent back; the second pistol's fate is unclear; the third and fourth pistols' problems are not mentioned at all.

Tough to damn a complete product line when a company's very generous warranty policy is ignored and not taken advantage of.

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I'm with the banned ...

i noticed the same thing sir....

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Having purchased a new Model 36 Classic 3", a new Model 64 2" a new-old-stock Model 5906 and a new M&P 9C in the past 5 years and having had exactly zero issues with any of them I have a quite different view of the Company.
Now if I had a problem with the first one I may have given them a second chance. But if by try number three I was still dissatisfied, I'm thinking there would not have been a fourth attempt on my part.

The OP has 16 posts on this forum. Interesting reads, they are.

I had a new Nano and it was a good shooting gun but had extraction
problems and beretta has no clue as what to do with them and I fixed mine .
I traded mine on a 686 plus 3" and love it no cocked barrel and no extraction problems .Smith & Wesson beats Beretta in quality .

Don't get me wrong as I like Smiths, but in reality it is the Smith & Wesson that turns the wrong way.

I guess my primary question on all of these fit/finish complaints in here is this, did they buy it in the dark? Blindfolded or what? A proper inspection would easily reveal the issues BEFORE you buy it.

Maybe I'm negligently applying common sense again? Just whistling in the dark, carry on.

Colt SAA's are as good today as ever and better than 1980-90's.

I can only say that the J-frame 442 no-lock I bought in 2010 has run flawlessly and the finish, etc. is exellent. In 2011, I bought the much-maligned Sigma semi-auto in .40...and after 500+ rounds, not a single failure. I, for one, am happy with my new Smiths.

Sorry but when I see something like this I have to say something...What's your source on that?? I still see just as many posts asking "why does my M&P slide release when I insert a mag?" Just yesterday I watched one of the contestants on Top Shot insert at least two different mags into an m&P and watched the slide close on it's own. And yes this was a newer gun because it had the stepped rear sight. So again...if your going to say something like that I have to ask, what's your source?

.

I still see plenty of people complaining about SAA issues on the colt fourm. So if by saying "their as good today as ever" you mean 'they have always had problems', I'll say...I agree.

It's all been said and this thread is full of some good debate. This far in we should give ourselves a collective pat on the back for keeping it civil.

I'm in the "older Smith" camp and have stated my reasons here before.

Here is a thought: Some of my very favorite revolvers are no-dash 586's in blue and nickel. Those seem to be universally accepted as outstanding handguns. However, they have the scarlet letter "M". They made the walk of shame to Springfield and yet all I get are compliments when I show them off.

How often do we hear discussion about everyone's favorite "dash"? Did the company issue engineering changes because previous versions were perfect? Nope, but those are the benchmark we compare the new stock with today.

If they slow down the conveyor belt to inspect each piece under a microscope, folks gripe that they are backlogged.

If they hire enough humans to keep QC up to par, folks gripe about price increases.

If they keep up with demand and stay price-competitive, folks gripe about the associated quality issues.

Buy a new gun and it comes with a lifetime no B.S. warranty.

Honestly, what do you want?

Come to think of it, I should probably dump my CS-1 while I still can. That lemon had to go back twice!

A.

Avery ... You know the old saying ... when S&W gives you a lemon, make it a Lemon Squeezer.

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I'm with the banned ...

I have bought a lifetime worth of Smiths, new and old the last couple of years... virtually little to no problems. But there were a few issues with both new and old guns... I didn't bash S&W, I didn't come in here and whine about it. In fact I may have mentioned a few issues, but fixed them and moved on. S&W is the best darn gun company in the world... in my book!!

If ya got a problem, everyone here would jump up to the plate to help, many of us have used CS and S&W support has always been pretty darn good the few times I called them. Coming in just to attempt to hurt S&W is going to get the usual llikes from the few I won't mention, but it's a handful of guys out of thousands on this board that think they are a majority, guess what... those that complain and those that raa, raa the complainers are a spec in the pile of happy gun owners. I feel sorry for those few guys that try so hard to knock S&W new guns and plastic guns, cause you sound pathetic.. but it's your right to freedom of speech that so many of us here have fought to preserve, but it doesn't make it right in my book. Lot's more I'd like to say... but I won't. I'll just poke around here, look for some good reads, maybe some S&W gun porn and scheme about my next S&W purchase.... I'm heading to our local gun show tomorrow, got a Governor in my head if I find one, maybe something in a 300 win, 50bmg, maybe a 308 upper AR.... or just any good deal on any S&W gun!!!

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Jack C

I could actually ask the same. What's your source? Something you perceived from a TV show? Internet posts? Really? Well, I guess that's my source, too. I read on a forum that Smith addressed the mag closure problem and I have rarely seen posts about that ever since then. I guess my other source is personal experience. My job puts me in a position to see a service guns do their job-a lot. I don't go around saving links in the event that somebody asks me to quote a source.