Anyone Use a Wheelgun for Gun Games?

Hey all,

I have never shot in any of the various "Gun Games." I've always wanted to give some of them a try though. Now that I am in Houston I can probably find just about all of them at one place or another to play.

When I watch the stuff on TV I have always liked the guys that use revolvers. I don't know why, I just do. I especially like that competition that takes place in some small California town each year that is WheelGun ONLY.

I'd like to ask you guys if any of you participate in any of these Gun Shooting Competitions and use a REVOLVER. If you do, how about telling which games you shoot and what hardware you use to do it with. Of course PICS of your setup is always encouraged.

Oh, one last thing, what revolver would you buy or suggest if someone were going to try shooting some of these competitions with a revolver?

Thanks all

Nalajr

Sorry can't help you. Never heard of "Gun Games" up this way, but that might be what they played in the movie "The Deer Hunter." Kinda rough, that game. I suppose just about any revolver would do, though a 7-shot would be a lot more favorable than the standard 5-shot J Frame.

I was taught that guns aren't toys so, I never played "gun games" however, I shoot both wheel and square guns. For weight, balance, feel, and comfort, I still prefer the N-frame wheel gun over the others. 6 shots is enough if you put them where they belong.

I regularly shoot IDPA/SSR and ICORE with a Model 66.
In Houston, there are several clubs nearby, 3 IDPA.
I have shot at the one west of town.

The gun you need depends on which sanctioning body you participate in.
For IDPA, a K or L frame 6 shot .38 (.357) shooting .38 Special is ideal. You aren't allowed to load more than 6, so the 7-shot guns are a handicap. Speedloaders and an approved holster are required. IDPA.com has all the info.

The same gun can be used in ICORE classic, with power factor 120 ammo required.

For USPSA revolver, the ruling gun is a Model 625 .45 ACP with moonclips. See USPSA.org for all the info.

There are several types of competition where either of these revolvers, and several others can fit in, such as USPSA Production, IDPA/ESR, bowling pins, and various made up club rules not conforming to much of anything.

The most important thing in equipment choice if you are going to shoot sanctioned matches is to get equipment that meets the org rules and piuts you on a level footing. A lot of the "advice" on this forum is from people who don't shoot competition, and is not useful for meeting competition rules, but is what they like to plink with. BE SURE to read the org rules, and go watch some matches, talk to actual revolver competitors.

SASS, for example, is strictly old timer western single actions or reproductions and is called "cowboy action."

The gun handling--reloading in particular-- is what makes the difference in shooting in a revolver match and being competitive in a revolver match. You have to reload after each 6 shots, so in IDPA/SSR you can spend more time reloading than you do shooting.

Did I mention revolver shooting is a hoot? Especially when you shoot in a sanctioned match with everybody shooting legal equipment, and it is just shooter skill that makes the difference.

Revolvers definitely are a hoot! I started shooting USPSA more than 20 years ago with a 1911, but within the first couple of years tried it with a revolver and haven't looked back since. Generally speaking the revolver divisions in USPSA and IDPA tend to attract smaller numbers than the auto divisions - we all shoot the same courses of fire in mixed squads, but results are reported out separately based on the type of equipment. Sometimes a match director will host a USPSA match and restrict it to revolvers only, you can look up the Memphis Charity Challenge which was covered by the TV show Shooting USA a couple of times. Last year saw the first Revolver Nationals for USPSA, which drew a couple hundred competitors. The revolver only match in California you mentioned was most likely the International Revolver Championship, which is the big annual match for ICORE. I've shot it 4 or 5 times in recent years and it is the Mecca for revolvers!

I've shot with quite a wide variety of revolvers in competition, from a 3" Model 13 in the IDPA Back Up Gun Nationals to an 8-shot 5" 627 as my usual ICORE Limited Gun. My 5" 625 in 45 ACP is my favorite USPSA gun (there will be a change in rules taking effect next year that will allow the 8 shot revolvers in USPSA, but only scored "minor"). If you're just looking to have fun or test your skills, there is no need to worry about trying to pick the "best" equipment so long as it fits within the rules of the discipline. As you attend matches and see what others are using, you'll get a feel for what is most popular. It would be hard to beat a 4" (because that is the maximum barrel length allowed in IDPA) K or L frame .357 S&W as a very versatile revolver that could be used in all the revolver games. Almost everyone uses 38 spl cases, but you're usually in +P territory to make the minimum power factor. Most club level matches don't bother with chronographing ammo, though underpowered ammo might not knock over steel reliably.

Check out the websites for the organizations suggested above and see if there are clubs near you. Enjoy! John

At my Club we shoot Defensive Pistol one month and Reactive Steel the next on Saturdays once a month. We shoot ICORE on Sunday following the other match.

ICORE is all revolver.

In both ICORE and IDPA you have about the same basic equipment for ICORE Classic and IDPA SSR Divisions.
For this competition a 4" barrel 686SSR is not a bad place to start. You need a 6 Shot Revolver, and NOT a 7 shot for these Divisions for a couple reasons. Competition speed loaders being high on the list.
Classic/SSR Divisions are for 6 shot revolvers loaded with speed loaders.
For speed loaders you will do best with either Safariland Comp III's or Jet Loaders. How many speed loaders you have to have, depends on which game. IDPA is limited to 18 rounds per stage, and you are limited to 3 speed loaders on the belt. So in IDPA you could get by with 3 spring loaded speed loaders, plus an HKS for Load and Make Ready.

ICORE can have a pretty high round count on a single stage depending on where you shoot. Probably 6 Spring Driven speed loaders, and 6 kydex pouchs, and an HKS for load and make ready would be safe.

In IDPA you shoot starting with a concealed handgun, so you need a vest. You carry your speed loaders on the belt, 2 infront of the holster, and the 3d behind the holster or off side behind centerline. I use my leather every day carry holster, most who game this will have a kydex holster.

ICORE the most compedative way is using a gun belt over your pants belt. This way you can rack up all the speed loaders where you can get to them. Again a kydex holster is the way to game this. Again I am using my leather every day carry holster on my pants belt.

Then we have Moon Clip Revolvers. In IDPA this is ESR Division. In ICORE it is called Limited. If you plan on shooting both get a 4" barrel. IDPA has a barrel length limited of 4.2 inches maximum.
The top dog for this game will be a S&W 625 in 45acp.
You will need Moon Clips and Moon Clip Carriers. For IDPA I would go with Shoot A Moon carriers from California Competition Works. For ICORE I would recommend the tall posts that stack 2 one above the other to start with. Another option for ICORE/USPSA is the spring loaded moon clip feeder. With this your moon clips are all racked up in a line around your waist and a spring driven follower keeps them fed to the end so you can grab a moon clip from the same exact spot every time. I do not have anyone using one at our club, but they are very common with the big boys.

What I use:
Classic and SSR:
S&W 686-5 with 4 inch barrel
Leather pancake holster
L Frame Safariland Comp III Speed Loaders
Big Creek Kydex Speed Loader Belt Carriers
HKS speed loaders for load and make ready.

Limited and ESR:
S&W 625-3 with 4 Inch Barrel
Leather Pancake holster
Shoot A Moon moon clip post carriers.
Ranch Products moon clips, and others I have picked up over the years.
Moon Clip Loader and unloader. I do not have one yet, but the best choice is I believe a BMT.

Out of time, got a bench rest match.

Bob

NRA Action Pistol is a revolver neutral competition. I liked to use my 586.
USPSA has a revolver division, the 625 with moon clips seems to be the most used.
IDPA has a revolver division.
Speed Steel usually can be shot with a revolver.
IHMSA field pistol is revolver friendly.

I would suggest going to some different types of matches to see what type of competition interests you and checking out what the locals are using. Also reading the rule books for the different type of competition is very helpful.

GUN COMPETITIONS

I'm new to this so will give it to you from my point of view. I've noticed that even most of the "not so good" competitors are better shooters than the avg Joe public shooters at an open range. Want to improve your skills, hang & shoot with better shooters. I've only tried bowling pin & steel challenge so far. There seem to be less rules and a pretty laid back atmosphere & is a whole lot more fun than punching paper. Both the BP & SC are timed events but the clock stops for reloading & moving to the next table so re-loading speed is not as much of an issue. both have 5 targets to hit, SC the targets are bigger but you only have to hit them, and a light "powder puff" load is allowed. BP's you need to knock the pin off the table so more power can be a +, also a not so good shooter can beat a better shooter that may hit all his pins & they just don't leave the table. 6 speed loaders/mags are ideal, 1-2 being spares. What I like about revo's is you don't have to fight the brass buzzards over whose brass is whose. I go to a lot of trouble trimming brass to length, uniforming flash holes/primer pockets & sorting by brand & wt, then color coding with nail polish so I know they are mine & when they were trimmed etc. so you can bet I want THEM ALL back. Some people take things REAL serious & others get grabby with others brass, you will spot them easy. I do shoot 9mm & 45acp semi's now & again but always seem to lose some brass when I do. As for handguns I see very many Ruger 22lr's mostly MKll's, larger caliber semi's are all over the place, larger caliber revo's are mostly S&W's 4" probably being more common, but there are plenty of the longer bbl.'s.

When I lived in New Mexico, I shot USPSA/IPSC with a Model 15.
Since moving to South Dakota, I have been shooting IDPA with a Model 58. To reduce my splits because of recoil, I just bought a 625 and stopped "rocking the wrist breaker" during competition.
I try to keep my equipment practical. Leather pancake holster and belt, and my reloads are in my pocket. I don't have a vest yet, so I just wear a jacket.
Here's me and the M58 at the last match in October.



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Dang, it's been a while, but I used to shoot a lot at Ft. Benning matches which were scored like IDPA. Used a 686 CS-1 mostly in revolver class. But was known to show up with all sorts of things, including M1917s, 625s, a .38 Terrier for BUG, and even WWII .38 Enfield revolvers which they allowed as it was military issue. (Surprisingly effective, BTW!)

Did try a Model 58 a couple of times using factory loads. It wasn't too bad until the cylinder started partially opening under recoil. That and the swelling of the strong hand the next day...The noise and recoil just didn't seem to register too much during the runs.

Nalapombu said:

I'd like to ask you guys if any of you participate in any of these Gun Shooting Competitions and use a REVOLVER. If you do, how about telling which games you shoot and what hardware you use to do it with.

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Not a guy but I shoot IDPA once a month with my 640 J Frame 5 shot.

If I was going for fun I'd get a 6 shot revolver, a lot of times I'm at a distinct disadvantage with requiring to reload at odd times. But it's good practice. Every time I go I have fun and learn a lot. I highly recommend it.

I've shot revolver at my local USPSA club on and off. I like to refer to them as "Revolver Racist", the last match was 25, 27, 28rd courses. With the classifier being 12rds, but on a 4rd-8rd split, tough on the six round gunners. No doubt the 625 does rule in that division of USPSA, although I have used a 610 most of the time. Next year might be interesting if they do allow 8-shot revolvers to shoot minor, like they do in single stack where minor can load 10 opposed to 8rds.

Find out what clubs shoot what discipline in your area. Attend a match (or matches) and decide which direction you wish to go. If possible shoot a match with equipment you already have, to get a better feel for what works. Once you have a game plan in mind, then invest in whatever equipment you want/need.

I compete in both IDPA and USPSA.

In IDPA SSR division I use a 4.2" model 586-4 chambered in .38 Special. An Alabama Holster Co. kydex holster. Safariland Comp III speedloaders and kydex speedloader holders I bought from someone here on the forum.

In ESR division I use a 3.8" model 646 chambered in .40 S&W. Same holster as above and a North Mountain dual (stacked) moonclip holder plus a single moonclip holder.

In USPSA Revolver division I use a 4" model 625-8 PC in .45 ACP. A Blade-Tech speed holster with the D/O removed and a Tech-Lock for attachment to a CR Speed over/under belt. I use a North Mountain four-post moonclip holder secured with Tech-Locks.

I just acquired a model 627-4 PC in .38 Super for use in the Revolver division (effective 2/1/14). It will be carried in a Double Alpha Racer holster and the same belt & moonclip holder as above.

Get out and try it. Have fun and be safe.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

I've been shooting 50 + years, and I've never had anything to do with "gun-games," nor do I really want to play GAMES with any firearm.

99% of my shooting is done with .357 Magnum revolvers, as that is what I carried to work daily, and now use for personal defense..

I shoot ICORE, USPSA, and shooter vs shooter steel plate and bowling pin matches. GREAT stuff - LOTS of fun - and one cannot help but become more proficient.

For ICORE and USPSA I used a M625 .45ACP. Am B class in both (although at the lower end of B class!)

This year, however, I started using a M627 with handloaded .38 Short Colt ammo for ICORE. LOVE the M625 but the 8-shot M627 is the predominant choice in ICORE (Limited and Open Divisions).

The M625 is the predominant choice for USPSA Revolver Division. However, that MAY change a bit starting in February 2014 when USPSA rules change to allow the 8-shot revolvers. Which model (M625 or M627) will become most popular? Unknown at this juncture and it is a big topic of discussion among USPSA revolver shooters. The M625 .45ACP easily makes Major Power Factor. The new rule to allow the 8-shot (such as the M627) states it will be scored as Minor Power Factor. So, there is much discussion which will be better - 6-shot Major or 8-shot Minor; will be interesting to see! And I do plan to use my M627 in USPSA Revolver Division next year.

Just recently I used my M627 (with .38 Short Colt ammo) in USPSA Production Division and did quite well. My first match to do so, so I don't yet have a classification in that Division. Production Div is predominantly the 10-shot semi-autos. (It IS fun to outscore semi-auto shooters! Hee hee!)

Also use the M625 for both steel plate and bowling pin shooter vs shooter competitions. Will now use the M627 for steel plates as it will easily fell plates and the additional two shots are advantageous. For bowling pin shooter vs shooter competiton, however, will continue to use the M625 as the .45ACP is MUCH, MUCH more effective in clearing a table of pins. Shooting bowling pins off a table requires bullet weight; velocity is not so important (a standard velocity 230 gr bullet knocks pins off the table MUCH better than any high velocity .357 bullet.)

If you can find competitions within reasonable driving distance, I HIGHLY recommend you attend! (We have matches locally, but its common for us to drive an hour or two to shoot other matches.)

BobC357 said:

I was taught that guns aren't toys so, I never played "gun games" however, I shoot both wheel and square guns. For weight, balance, feel, and comfort, I still prefer the N-frame wheel gun over the others. 6 shots is enough if you put them where they belong.

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old bear said:

I've been shooting 50 + years, and I've never had anything to do with "gun-games," nor do I really want to play GAMES with any firearm.

99% of my shooting is done with .357 Magnum revolvers, as that is what I carried to work daily, and now use for personal defense..

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"Gun Games" is, perhaps, a misnomer. Competitions, such as USPSA, is admittedly a "game" - BUT such competitions are very good for many reasons, including honing accuracy, speed, and handling skills.

I too have been shooting for more than two score and a decade. I didn't start competitive match shooting until about 10 years ago. And I sure wish I had been nearer to matches and able to start much sooner.

The benefits of match shooting are many - across the board, from a personal level to furtherance of 2nd Amendment rights to firearm and components development.

OldBear, I see an LEO badge next to your name in this forum. Wouldn't you say that police competitions (was not PPC started by police?) are, in effect, "gun games"?

I don't post this to "flame" you guys. But to denigrate competitive shooting - "gun games" - is ridiculous.

Competitive shooting - which I suppose you can technically/legitimately call "gun games" - has been a time honored training mechanism and sport for centuries.

625 Shooter said:

"Gun Games" is, perhaps, a misnomer. Competitions, such as USPSA, is admittedly a "game" - BUT such competitions are very good for many reasons, including honing accuracy, speed, and handling skills.

I too have been shooting for more than two score and a decade. I didn't start competitive match shooting until about 10 years ago. And I sure wish I had been nearer to matches and able to start much sooner.

The benefits of match shooting are many - across the board, from a personal level to furtherance of 2nd Amendment rights to firearm and components development.

OldBear, I see an LEO badge next to your name in this forum. Wouldn't you say that police competitions (was not PPC started by police?) are, in effect, "gun games"?

I don't post this to "flame" you guys. But to denigrate competitive shooting - "gun games" - is ridiculous.

Competitive shooting - which I suppose you can technically/legitimately call "gun games" - has been a time honored training mechanism and sport for centuries.

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"Gun Games" might not be the best terminology.

However, When I tell my friends I have a new toy. They want to know what model and caliber.
My son-in-law was in the Army & a police officer. When he became part of the family he started shooting competition with me. He has said several times he never really learned to shoot until he started shoot competition with me.

I shoot competition with several police officers, and most of them are good shots. But, I've also seen a few police quaifcations and a large percent of them couldn't hit the ground with their hat.

So, call it gun games ,, competition, or practice it makes you a better shot,, and it's fun.

Years ago, I had occasion to shoot in bowling pin competition, an informal club match. I used my 4" Model 25-5 in .45LC and found the 250-255gr factory loads would smack the pin hard off the table. Recoil was minimal so I was able to move directly to the next pin and the HKS loaders allowed rapid reloading.

If I recall, my best time was 6.65 seconds.

TAROMAN said:

If the targets aren't shooting back, its a game as far as I'm concerned.

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I agree. I once thought-out a way to add being shot at to the competition. The shooter would wear a vest and a hat that would register laser strikes. At the target would be a laser emitter "pointing" shots randomly at the stage window from which the shooter must shoot. Hits would be scored automatically with the time referree; get hit in the wrong place and your stage would be over. Your stage could be over before the first shot if you did not use cover carefully.

I did not think this device would be very popular with the run-and-gun-set so I did not preceed with a prototype. You are welcome to the idea if you think it would sell. Just tell'em Ol' Enzo sent ya.