What is going on with S&W?????

cmj8591 said:
Maybe they should stamp "READ OWNERS MANUAL BEFORE USE" on the gun next to the amperstamp just to remind people.
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I don't understand how people are so close minded as to not understand some very simple points.

You can put 'read owners manual' on things all you want. Hell you can require dealers to get an initial stating purchaser agrees to read the owners manual. But the simple fact is 9.5 times out of 10 a person who owns several revolvers is just not going to read the manual.

If your post was serious and meant to be a positive constructive, contribution to the discussion then I apologize for the close minded comment. It doesn't change the fact that your suggestion would not work.
 
I was working on a couple of my performance center guns last night... and .... brace yourself ...... look at what I found.

A properly dressed yoke retaining screw. :eek: You'll have to take my word on this next statement. (I thought I took pictures of both but I did not)

The other PC revolver I was working on had the exact same dressing. Imagine that.

This dressing is not a loc-tite. My guess is it's VC3. It's a vibration resistant dressing that is good for several removal/installs.

The screw on the 327 TRR8 did not have this dressing.
 

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I have a 329PD and started using Ballistol and CLP for cleaning it. That new finish for their black Scandium revolvers, I looked on this forum before cleaning it the first time, since it's the first time I've dealt with this new finish, so caught the "don't use Hoppes #9" warning...so I didn't...well...maybe once :).
That said, Hoppes works fine on my PC 629 Snub and haven't had an issue, but I may just switch over to Ballistol and the CLP since they seem to be doing the job just fine. I'll leave the Hoppes 9 for my Rugers and Marlins I guess!
 
Club Gun Fan said:
Where does your "inside" information coming from about temps. I'd also like to know more about their bonus program.
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My information about temps is not "inside" information. It's in the paper.

I know two people who were hired as temps.

The Springfield Republican has ads in it often for temporary positions at Smith & Wesson.

Search google for Smith and Wesson job fair or United Personnel.

You know people at Smith do they deny they hire a lot through a temp agency?

As far a bonuses and profit sharing, Smith has long had programs to tie bonuses to production. They still do.

A lot of companies do this and it can be a good program. But when there is not a program in place or an incentive on less returns sometimes it only becomes about production and less about quality.

Ask your friends at Smith about the percentage of units returned. Is it up or down?

I'm not saying all the good guys at Smith are gone but it seems a lot have retired, died or moved on and have been replaced with a lesser quality of employee.

It's the same where I work its harder and harder to find good help, we just recently lost three guys to retirement with 85 five years of combined experience.

Because of budgets and lack of foresight we couldn't hire guys to work with the guys leaving to gain from their experience.

Two thirty year guys and a twenty five year guy gone. After they retire we hire three new guys and all that previous knowledge is gone.

It happens everywhere, how the company chooses to deal with it can make a difference.
 
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I'm not going to argue with the premise here that factory quality at S&W appears to be slipping recently. I agree.

BUT, I feel compelled to say that one should NEVER use the red locktite on gun screws of any kind, unless you NEVER EVER want to pull that screw out again.
 
Flipmeister said:
I missed that or I would have made the same comment. 270 series wicking or non wicking is permanent threadlocker for securement with no disassembly. You can remove the fastener by heating it..

You want blue threadlocker, not red. I think it's 242.
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A product like VC3 is ideal for these screws, and it's what the factory uses.

Edit - not sure they use the exact product VC3, but it's the same type of product. Wanted to be clear on that.
 
Revoman said:
My information about temps is not "inside" information. It's in the paper.

I know two people who were hired as temps.

The Springfield Republican has ads in it often for temporary positions at Smith & Wesson.

Search google for Smith and Wesson job fair or United Personnel.

You know people at Smith do they deny they hire a lot through a temp agency?

As far a bonuses and profit sharing, Smith has long had programs to tie bonuses to production. They still do.

A lot of companies do this and it can be a good program. But when there is not a program in place or an incentive on less returns sometimes it only becomes about production and less about quality.

Ask your friends at Smith about the percentage of units returned. Is it up or down?

I'm not saying all the good guys at Smith are gone but it seems a lot have retired, died or moved on and have been replaced with a lesser quality of employee.

It's the same where I work its harder and harder to find good help, we just recently lost three guys to retirement with 85 five years of combined experience.

Because of budgets and lack of foresight we couldn't hire guys to work with the guys leaving to gain from their experience.

Two thirty year guys and a twenty five year guy gone. After they retire we hire three new guys and all that previous knowledge is gone.

It happens everywhere, how the company chooses to deal with it can make a difference.
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The fact that S&W hires temps doesn't surprise me in the least. A lot of companies do for various reasons. As temps, the company doesn't have to provide any employee benefits, and in some states, they don't pay unemployment taxes on them and even receive compensation from unemployment to offset the temporary worker's wages. Additionally, it also acts as a screening process for the employers who often offer permanent positions to good workers. I know of one company you're all familiar with - GM - who used the same "temporary" employees for more than 5 years!
 
I got the gun back, and it feels tight. I have not updated the thread because I have not measured or checked any specs.
 
All the S&W revolvers I bought new in the handsome wood box came with a nice scewdriver. All the PC revolvers I've got have had a nice finish, perfect fit, and wonderful trigger pull. Never had a loose screw. Am I lucky or what ?
 
I carry some flat-head bits from Brownells (that don't ruin the heads of the screws) and a small tube of Blue-tite in my ammo/range can just in case. And I use Hoppe's new synthetic blend for clean and their Elite series gun oil. Will not eat polymer so it should be good on mental finishes as well. And I only use a nylon bore brush and bore handle I bought from Glock.

90977.jpg



BIG Hoss..
 
"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually." -James Baldwin [from: A THOUGHT FOR TODAY: A.Word.A.Day --floccipend, Aug 2, 2016]

Insert "Smith and Wesson" in place of Baldwin's "America" and "revolver" in place of "country" and you have my sentiments, but until last month I've never felt a need to criticize the company.

I bought my first S&W revolver 43 years ago. There have been scores since then, and I bought my latest new one last month: a Model 640-1 Pro, according to Smith and Wesson, "... the next step from the standard models." The day after I got it I sent it back because the front Tritium sight was dark and the action felt like it was full of sand. Mark at S&W's cs said, "Let's get it in here and get it taken care of for you."

Ten days later I got it back with the appropriate glow-in-the-dark front sight and a new trigger, according to the paperwork. The action was wonderful, and I enjoyed shooting quite a variety of ammo through the gun last Saturday.

Sunday I set out to clean my new pride and joy. With the cylinder open and using my favorite cleaner to de-black the front end I discovered two huge flaws in the metal. Beneath the barrel, and for the full length of the ejector rod housing, was a milling mark that looked like the bit had chattered as it did its work. Then, below and right of the south end of the north-bound barrel on the frame was a deep, ragged divot in the steel. I couldn't tell if it was a milling error or a defect in the steel that had been exposed by milling. Matthew at S&W's cs seemed to disregard my concerns about the aesthetic flaws and seemed only concerned about how the gun had "performed" when I fired it, also ignoring the fact that the defects I described could potentially cause the frame and barrel to fail.

Anyway, today the gun landed back in Springfield for the second time in less than a month.

I've been spoiled through the years. This is the first gun I've ever seen that didn't leave the factory in flawless condition. The 640 Pro is my fourth new J-frame this year -- 60-14, 360PD, and M&P 340 are the others -- just "standard models," but each one is flawless.

I'm most eager to learn how the factory warranty is going to perform this time.

I'll let you know,

Bob
 
Hello Bob,

I feel your pain brother, when I was looking over BIG Hoss at my FFL before I accepted it that has terrible lighting inside I still spotted my flaw, it's under the crane/ejection rod housing, I mean it looks like their tooling got dull or something, I mean jagged cut as all get out.

I'm not calling them because it's hidden and it's not a metal defect plus I don't want to be without a gun which is my only one. I think the problem over there is they can't ship these revolvers out quick enough, revolvers are back in and their profit margins on them are huge.

But I will say this when I spotted that flaw I was taken aback somewhat cause this ain't no $300 dollar Taurus or Charter Arms. However even with that I'd owned no other brand.

Suffice to say, all in all I'm a happy camper.
I'm sure they'll take care of you Bob.
 
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Pdxrealtor said:
I just got back from zeroing in my red dot. Had a great time shooting the steel pigs 100 yards out once zeroed in!

150 rounds through the gun today, and maybe another 100 prior.

Got home, got out the Hoppes 9 and went to clean the cylinder holes. Instantly the cylinder changed color.

Not the rest of the gun, not the back of the cylinder, just the front and sides.

I then look down and see the cylinder retaining screw almost all the way out.

Any idea what the heck happened? Will be calling S&W first thing.

Unless this was a complete snafu on my part.... I'm done buying new S&W revolvers.

1100.00 327 TRR8
.12 B/C gap
. Cylinder finish came right off
. screws coming out after a small amount of rounds
. I've got 20 bucks that says the end shake is out of spec too. **Edit** End shake is .012. In other words the cylinder touches the barrel when pushed forward.
- Strain screw loose after 250 rounds

1000.00 686+ PC
Canted barrel
Front sight installed completely off center
Has a cylinder stop pin in the rebound slide. To quote S&W "it must have been put there by someone on graveyard half a sleep. We don't use those any more"
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Give the PC points for consistency. On the upside, they employ people who couldn't find work anywhere else which helps the economy...........
 
Howdy Mulebuk Sam,

If you and I lived nearby I'd loan you one of mine so you could send yours in.

The more folks who accept S&W's subpar products, the more they'll think it's ok to push them on us. They won't begin to address the problem, and they might lower their standards further, believing they can get away with it. It's like a snowball rolling downhill, gaining strength and momentum as it descends into the abyss.

Cheers,

Bob
 
Thanks Bob for the offer, I'm clear across in Maine. But I do appreciate the offer.
If it starts bugging me I'm a gonna take a picture of it with my cell phone camera and email it to them and see what they say. I learn my lesson once sending a Beretta in that I had troubled with getting the thing field striped and put back together. They sent it back without doing anything to it except to say they fired some rounds through it.

Needless to say that got sold and Beretta forever on my no buy list.
Anyway if it starts to bug me I'll see what they say and if they tell me to send it in I'll see if I can borrow a gun from a fellow member at the gun club I belong to. I had to sell my G39 to help finance this one and the truth is I don't like having more than 1 gun to worry about, although I do understand if in a shooting encounter it's good to have a back-up in case your gun is taken until cleared. But still when ever I have more than 1 gun I get to caught up in keeping up with the ammo supply and range work-outs, not to mention I never left my 2nd gun at home for fear of theft so I was always carrying two guns. Either a G30 or the G39 with a 642 riding shotgun.

So you know Bob, I agree with what you said above.
 
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