S&W 10-11 strange serial number location

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DeafSmith

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Folks I ran into a S&W 10-11 4 inch .38 spl at a pawn shop.

But the serial number on the butt... wasn't there! Looks like it was erased?? It had it stamped inside the crane and etched into the frame.

Were they made that way?

Here is a photo.. Don't mind the price the have on it... I ain't buying it that price.. way to worn for such cost.
 

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On some revolvers S&W put the serial number below the cylinder window and no number on the butt. We've had this discussion before. Also during the 1990s I bought a new stainless revolver with its s/n in that location. Another stainless S&W I bought about the same time has its s/n on the bottom of its top strap. If my memory is good the second location on both is the butt but I'm not sure. Maybe they are the same gun? Any way that s/n is not a concern.

Until the buying panic simmers down $400 for a model 10 might be as good as a fellow can do. On the other hand on January 20 ... oops! forbidden topic.
 
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As I recall, the reason for the SN on the left frame was to have it visible with the action closed and without having to remove oversized grips, as was common with the NY-1 model 64s.

Initially the etching was too shallow and you could polish off the SN easily, which led to a mandate about the depth (and probably having it stamped on the yoke cutout as a backup).
 
Cant say about the older S&W revolvers but my new 610 is marked behind the crane.
Are they different in the older models?
It would be nice to know if I purchase a used S&W.
 
Texas S&W Shooter said:
Cant say about the older S&W revolvers but my new 610 is marked behind the crane.
Are they different in the older models?
It would be nice to know if I purchase a used S&W.
Click to expand...
Before model numbers, except for pre-WW II I frames, the only place serial numbers were stamped on the frame was the butt. Some pre-WW II I frames had the frame serial number stamped on the front strap because their extension stocks covered the butt. When model numbers were added they were stamped in the yoke cut out below the barrel. Some, but not all revolvers also had their serial number stamped there in addition to the serial number on their butt. Generally that was on models likely to be sold with Target Stocks that covered their butt serial number. Eventually having the serial number in two places on the frame became the norm.

Revolvers also had their serial number on the back of the cylinder, underside of the extractor, back of the yoke visible through a chamber, on the back side of the left stock, and on the barrel flat or in their extractor shroud. It was also on early target sights. The number of places the serial number was stamped was reduced starting in 1956. The barrel number was the first to go.

All hand ejectors to this day have an assembly number stamped on their yoke, side plate and frame. Those parts are fitted before serial numbers are assigned. Assembly numbers keep those parts together during the manufacturing process. They are not recorded nor is any effort made to prevent duplication so after the revolver is finished they are not good for much. The frame assembly number was in the yoke cut out until that location was needed for a model number then they were moved to the left side of the grip frame.
 
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raljr1 said:
Wonder if someone shortened the grip frame and restamped the serial number there.

Robert
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No, shortening the grip frame defaces the serial number which is a great way to end up in federal prison. The gun was part of a security company purchase. Many companies issue the first available gun at shift change.
 
raljr1 said:
Wonder if someone shortened the grip frame and restamped the serial number there.

Robert
Click to expand...

Nope, that is the factory marking.
My 64-6 is marked exactly the same way. Model number and SN are on the frame inside the crane cut out and is also marked in the same place as the gun in question in this post on the left side of the frame below the cylinder. No SN on the bottom of grip frame.

My gun was purchased brand new from a S&W dealer so it came that way.
 
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I saw other SW that had the number at the same spot , they seem to be later guns .
 
dusty3030 said:
Nope, that is the factory marking.

My 64-6 is marked exactly the same way. Model number and SN are on the frame inside the crane cut out and is also marked in the same place as the gun in question in this post on the left side of the frame below the cylinder. No SN on the bottom of grip frame.



My gun was purchased brand new from a S&W dealer so it came that way.
Click to expand...
Thank you. My ignorance of newer Smiths is showing...

Robert
 
I have seen some late 90s or early 2000s guns stamped like this. It’s always ones with the new style frame and mim hammer/trigger.

Either way I’m glad they went back to the conventional location.
 
luis said:
No, shortening the grip frame defaces the serial number which is a great way to end up in federal prison. The gun was part of a security company purchase. Many companies issue the first available gun at shift change.
Click to expand...

Actually I can shorten a grip frame and never remove the serial number. Cut the amount you wish to shorten frame from back strap and bevel ends, Heat front strap red and form to back strap ends touch, tack weld back strap. Then, remove same portion of steel from front strap from where you heated for the first forming formed. Heat up the tack weld on back strap. Tack weld front strap. Make sure everything is lined up and weld it out, grind and refinish. Serial number is never removed from the gun and is never altered. On I did weld up the slot for the main spring and re-cut it. I also had to modify its main spring.
Is it easy. NO, is it possible yes



This was originally a 1917 frame, besides having adjustable sights and a cut down 1950 barrel it also has a round butt, cut down grip frame and its serial number has never left the gun, or been altered.
WKNSQ2i.jpg
 
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DeafSmith said:
But the serial number on the butt... wasn't there! Looks like it was erased?? It had it stamped inside the crane and etched into the frame.

Were they made that way?
Click to expand...

This was done around 1996-7, when S&W was experimenting with laser engraving of the markings and serial numbers. Most of the markings are so faint, you can barely feel them with a fingernail. I like to think of this as the quantity vs quality method! I'm pretty sure the ATF later ruled that the markings need to be at least .003" deep.

I've got a Model 60-10 marked the same way.

Bare butt!
attachment.php


Frame and grip frame...
attachment.php


Yoke cut...
attachment.php


Faint address and barrel markings...
attachment.php


Assembly # and possible date? These are the only deep markings. :confused:
attachment.php
 

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This 10-11 has the ser # in the usual place. The OP's gun belonged to some organization that wanted the # readily available. I did replace the rubber grips originally on the gun since it's in "long term storage." Joe
RP3gWTk.jpg
 
luis said:
No, shortening the grip frame defaces the serial number which is a great way to end up in federal prison. The gun was part of a security company purchase. Many companies issue the first available gun at shift change.
Click to expand...
Grip frames can be shortened even if it defaces the serial provided the number is located elsewhere on the frame.
 
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