I know its out here somewhere, but, shy did S&W discontinue the model 25, especially the .45 ACP cartridge?

I have the feeling that they're going into a lot of plastic and stainless steel. Just wondering...

S&W's web site still shows a model 25 in .45 colt.

Not only the Model 25-2 (back in the last century) but all the ACP revolvers have been discontinued. Why? Probably low volume of sales.

Will they be back? If I could fathom that…

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Seems that it is still listed on their website.
Model 25 | Smith & Wesson
S&W may not be producing many of them right now as they have not been hot sellers in quite a while and especially right now when people want firearms more suitable for self-defense.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

Here in Arizona Single Action & Double Action 45 Colts are in high demand and the constant ads for wanting 45 Colt brass indicates to me that it is shot a lot.

This may be why Smith still lists it on their website, popular caliber.

__________________
Who are? "They"

The listing shows it as .45 Colt.

I know the .45 Auto versions of the M25 were pretty popular, but .45 Colt is what I'd prefer, and have. I never much cared for a revolver chambered for a rimless semiauto cartridge.

The model 25-15 is still listed in the S&W catalogue. It's part of the "New Classic" models and is probably the best N-frame revolver S&W ever produced!
I love mine! The action is smoother than anything "back in the day" and even DAO pulls are smooth and light. S&W really outdid themselves with the New Classic models.

They are still blued, but certainly not the carbonia oil blueing of the 1980 and earlier S&W's nor are they the very dark blue of the 1980-2000 black oxide process. The 2000 to present black oxide process produces a very black finish, unfortunately it is prone to changing to a plum color when exposed to ammonia or ammoniated compounds. The one good thing is that chamber throats are no longer oversized for the more common 0.452" bullets used in today's 45 Colt ammo.

If I wanted a Model 25 for collector purposes, I'd look at an older one. If I wanted one for shooting purposes, the new ones are likely to be easier to get good accuracy with cast lead bullets and not have to have them custom made to an oversized diameter.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

I was happy to get my used 25-15 from a good gun show vendor. It was his personal gun. I just like 45 Colt! Have a new Blackhawk 45 Convertible also. Bob Now if I only had a 25-7 or 9??

Attached Images

	008.JPG (152.2 KB, 146 views)
	005.JPG (147.0 KB, 144 views)
	P1050723.jpg (69.1 KB, 160 views)
	P1050725.jpg (69.4 KB, 129 views)
	six inch 018.jpg (164.1 KB, 111 views)

You are spreading false rumors, at least as far as the "old ones" being less accurate. They are not. I have never measured a throat in my life but the 25 - 5 revolvers are extraordinarily accurate. If they have larger throats it seems to have zero effect on accuracy.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

The older guns shoot fine, you just have to use the right diameter cast bullet, usually about .456". I don't know about jacketed bullets - maybe a .452" bullet will work with the oversized throats, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a jacketed bullet in a .45 Colt gun. They offer no advantage over a properly fit cast bullet.

Maybe y'all are right. I'm just an old coot, what do I know? Maybe it's past time for me to ride off into the sunset and let the young provide all the answers.

__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA

The two 25-9s I have are quite accurate shooters. They have the consistent throats that are normally found in the later production 25-5 and newer. Good revolvers.

__________________
No good deed goes unpunished.

My 25-15 has a fantastic bluish black finish. Rather more attractive than some of my older revolvers. It looks like one of my 29-5 Classic Hunter's finishes. (I've bought that .44 revolver twice just because it looks good. Sold it once because it isn't the best shootin' thang on the planet.)

Judging from the number of people who post here who can't fathom the idea of a revolver that uses a pistol cartridge and moon clips, I would guess S&W took that to heart and stopped building those. I have one and like it but at the time I bought it there were no 4'' S&W 44 Specials being built. The 625 requires additional support and isn't the easiest to load for.

The fact that the 625 and 25 (45 ACP) has been discontinued will start those models on their way to being more expensive in the used market. You can count on it. I see it already with the 625.

__________________
That's just somebody talkin.

If one wishes to shoot ACP out of a S&W .45 Colt cylinder, just have it cut for full moon clips.

Guess I am an old coot too. Retired and on fixed income - bought all my "New" S&W revolvers in the 1980's. When I had extra cash and they were what I wanted. I also wanted a Colt New Frontier - they were always just outside my comfort level as far as price.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

If the internet had been around in the 1970s or '80s, folk would have been in an uproar over the lack of S&W quality control back then, too. I was given a big swag of parts by a former S&W rep. when we were working for Glock in the late '80's. He needed them just to keep the grousing down at the various PDs he visited, trying to drum up sales. It's come in handy for me quite a bit since....

I remember the reaction to the new 29-3s. Couldn't hardly give one away to a "Smith guy". For some reason I liked the new 25-5s and got one as soon as I turned 21. For some reason I still like 'em but shoot more .44 as it does better at long range.

I have a 25-2 that I have yet to use, and it is probably going to go the way of several of my other guns soon. I remember when I ordered a 45acp M25 in the 80's, it took 2 years to get.

I too imagine they will climb in price if discontinued. I mean what is not to like about the 45 acp?

__________________
Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I thought all S&W revolvers were discontinued in 2001?

Speaking of 25s, I’ve got a 25-5 already but someone local has a 25-7 model ‘1989’ (no box) for sale with about 500rds of ammunition for it…is $1,900 reasonable?

Is the ammo factory? I take it that is 45 colt. Depending on the ammo that has to be 50/box, so the gun is 1400. Is that out the door? Give us a bit more to work with here. What is the basic difference, without me looking?

I see one on a Gun for Sale site 1349.. Does not mention shipping, tax or CC fees. The turn line looks a lot heavier than the SLIGHT line he described. Rubber grips ( standard for all I know ). I would not pay 1349 for it. What is the condition of the one you are looking at?

__________________
Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I am aware that a lot of people don't care for 45 acp revolvers (25-2's and 625's) because of the moon clips and I gotta' say, I don't blame them. But...45 Auto Rim to the rescue. Once you use them they take the accuracy of n N frame S&W to a new level-IMHO. I know there is not room in the cylinder for it but a 5 shot L frame in 45 acp would get my credit card out post haste. I have been eyeballing a new Charter Pit bull in 45 for just that reason.

*
More likely than not, that's a good price, IF that is factory ammo. That variant is not common and not cheap.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

I have several 45 barrels both in blue and stainless and a 45 reamer. They will never be discontinued in my shop. LOL

While I am a big fan of the 45 Colt cartridge and bet many others here are as well, the 45 Colt cartridge is what I'd classify as sort of obsolete. Not that it isn't a GREAT cartridge, but the modern version has been the .44 Magnum. Again, don't get me wrong..... I own 3 guns in 45 Colt and none in 44 magnum, but I may not be a prime example of N frame calibers owned. The industry knows that many 45 Colt revolvers still out there are very old and so they need to be very cautious in how powerful a cartridge they produce in that caliber. Remember, liability rules these days!

In modern revolvers the old 45 Colt can actually be loaded up to equal or surpass 44 magnum factory loadings. The diameter of the bullet is larger and will still perform admirably. That said, the 44 magnum is just much more popular today, commonly available in more configurations and because it is much newer than the vulnerable 45 Colt it is in the process of making the 45 Colt obsolete.

Not all are good shooters, I had a 25-5 that .459" pin gauges would fall thru. Myself and everyone at the range shot it, with different ammo and the best anyone could do was about six inches at 15 yards. So no, it's not false information.

__________________
Todd

It amazes me when the OP asks about the 25-2 chambered in 45 ACP, how many posters answer by pointing out the new M25 that is chambered in 45 Colt. Sort of like asking why doesn't some manufacturer make a new rifle in 300 H&H, and people pointing out there are many in 30-06. Apples to oranges. I have a M25-2 and it is the second most accurate revolver I own, second only to my M24-3 with 6.5" barrel.

__________________
Have Canon, Will Travel

That is an easy fix. Take a 44 mag cylinder and run a .452 reamer with a .429 pilot though it. Then run a 45 colt reamer with a .452 pilot in it. Presto a perfect 45 colt cylinder. Plus, it you start with a recesses 44 mag cylinder you have a recessed 45 colt cylinder as the both have the same rim OD. In the case of the recessed cylinder being installed in a 45 colt frame you must file back the frame lug .060 with a safed file and some duct tape on the frame

I have fired guns with over sized throats from a machine rest. They are NOT as accurate as ones with proper throats. In fact I took a gun with .456 throats fired it of my machine rest, then replaced the cylinder with one I made and the 20 yard group was cut by more than 50%

45 Colt can be loaded to starting 454 Casull power using modern brass in an appropriately strong revolver but it will forever be restricted to SAAMI's 14K psi max power in factory loads. That doesn't mean it's not still a fun cartridge.

The 45ACP versions of the 25/325/625s are equally wonderful revolvers using either the ACP or Auto Rim cartridges & it has a higher SAAMI max power, standard @ 21K psi & (+P) @ 23K psi, but it's shorter case isn't well suited for the bigger/longer 250gr 45 Colt bullets in it.

Which is why I've advocated for a "tween" cartridge loaded to power between the 45ACP & a 45 Magnum, as well as in length.

This will allow it to fit in a standard 45ACP cylinder & have power in the 45 Super range (26K-28K psi), but handle heavier bullets, & only require that the standard 45ACP cylinder's headspacing shoulder be reamed (with a standard 45ACP reamer) to a slightly deeper depth to accept 45 Winchester Magnum brass shortened to 45 S&W Schofield length (1.100").

Enter the 45WSM. Read more about it here in this forum thread: When .45ACP In Your S&W 625 Isn’t Quite Enough… Step Up to the 45 WSM

.



.
.



.
.



.

Ba-de-ya, dancing in September

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

The more recent renditions of S&W 45s, both acp and colt have .452 throats.

Interestingly 44 mags are not immune to this either, just not as bad. I have found them as large as .431 and as small as .428

I have pin gauges from .061-.500, but you do not need them to check cylinder throats. Take a soft lead ball and tap it in you cylinder throats a 1/4" or more them measure with good calibers.

I think there is more to it that just throats too. Some chambers are larger than others. Same goes for brass and reloading dies

A slightly under sized cartridge in a slightly over sized chamber and the bullet will start out laying low in the chamber, over sized throats allow it to start low and hit the forcing cone low. A round that is tight in the chamber will of course start the bullet closer to centered and continue on its path better.

Had a couple 25-2's over the years.
Wife and I shot this one out at the deer lease
this past winter.
Very accurate.
Laid it on the table at 2 gun shows....many offers at $800.

I passed....gonna hang on to it.
1977 vintage with 6.5 inch barrel.

DUH.....Where ya been? Lots of post here on 25-5's with larger throats including mine not being accurate with .452 bullets.......Suggest you do a search here and read all the post.........including mine....Do you currently own a 25-5?

__________________
S&W Accumulator

Reading the replies makes me wonder if I am the only one reloading for his 25-2 using 45 Auto Rim brass? Shoots great. My 25-5 in 45 Colt shoots just fine too. Both were made in 1980 and the bluing is still impressive.

I have a 6.5", 25-15, .45 Colt and,
a 5" 625-6, .45 ACP w/moon clips, OR .45 Auto Rim (what murf205 said)

Both are excellent shooters

__________________
SWCA 3749 SWHF 867

The answer is lack of sales, due to the fact that the Model 29 shoots a much superior cartridge, and moon or half-moon clips are not required.

Much superiour??? I can kill anything just as dead with one of my 45 colts as anyone can with a 44 mag and at any range. If you don't know your gun and ballistics the drop on either over 100 yard starts to become substantial. Modern S&W 45 colts can safely launch 250 gr slugs at over 1100fps from a 6" barrel forever.

Either load will go completely though an elk, no problem and a poor hit with a 44 mag will not kill anything any better than the same hit with a 45. 200fps isn't magic

When I started reloading maybe 45 years ago all the 45 Colt bullets were .454" diameter. Around 1995 the SAAMI specs were revised so that 45 ACP and 45 Colt could use the same diameter bullets. None of the ones I own are that small because all of the revolvers I own were shipped from S&W prior to 1980. So the only diameter I use is .454" for 45 Colt.

Suggest you learn before you post erroneous and misleading information.

__________________
S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

I own a revolver that has 2 cylinders. One is a .45 ACP and the other a 45 Colt.

Initially, I tried both cylinders and found the Colt to be more accurate. Never used the ACP cylinder until recently and verified my results.

As I see it, the only reason to use a rimless cartridge in a revolver is because you already have the pistol and simply want to minimize ammo inventory. Or, you find it to be a lot of fun.

I agree with your assessment. I was disappointed with my 25-5, then after reading about it on this forum I switched to 0.454's and found it to be a tack driver. Funny thing, though, was that the 0.454's performed better in ALL of my Colt revolvers, even recent manufacture Ruger single actions that did NOT have oversized throats.

So, now I standardized on 0.454, period. Since I also own several .45 ACP pistols as well, I merely moved all my 0.452's over to the ACP inventory.

You only to splain it to those that don't know.....Rest of us have been there..Done that.

__________________
S&W Accumulator

You ain't alone. I've been loading AR brass with 250 gr bullets for years for my 3 ea 625's and a mdl 22.........Works great. Ya'll have saw this pic before.

Attached Images

100_0569.jpg (130.8 KB, 50 views)

__________________
S&W Accumulator

This basically points to my question...Murf, are you saying you can shoot .45 Auto Rim out of a revolver chambered for .45 Colt?
I thought the rim of the AR was too thick to work.
Apparently not the case?

Sounds like he's saying 45ARs are more accurate than 45AUTOs with moonclips in 45ACP revolvers?

The inner dimensions of modern 45AR & 45AUTO brass are the same.

Either brass, loaded with the same components, bullet, powder & primer, and assembled the same ways, COAL" & crimp, shoot the same for me.

I don't see a difference in their accuracy.

I just prefer the 45ARs. I love those stumpy little guys.

.



.
.



.

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

Not sure what you're referring to with this?

The 2015 SAAMI specs for the 45 Colt cartridge (see attachment) show the bullet can be anywhere from .4500" to .4560" (.4560" -.0060"), the throats .4520" to .4595", and groove .4500" to .4540", if I read this right.

I believe the "change" to .452" throats in the 45 Colt was a manufacturer change, probably as much for economics as anything.

.



.

Do you...

__________________
Waiting for the break of day

Oh yeah, I get what he was saying.
I was only addressing the fact that he was the only person in this whole thread who mentioned AR's, so I thought he might have some personal experience with them.
Apologies if that didn't come across in my question.

I have a machine rest and I know for a fact that a cylinder with throats above .454 will not be as accurate as one with proper throats. IF you have .454 or .455 throats you will be ok with .454 bullets, with .456 or larger throats accuracy will suffer depending on your chamber size (no they are NOT all the same there either). LOTS of early 45 had large throats. I also have a set of pin gauges, so I know exactly what I am dealing with. Do you? I had a 25-5 with a cylinder with .457 throats that would NOT shoot well no mater what sized bullets I stuck in it. I could not even chamber cases loaded with bullets over .454. I reamed a 44 cylinder to have .452 throats and it is now very accurate.

Just so you know, not only do I have a machine rest, pin gauges, I also have 8 S&W 45 colts and 4 in ACP, I also have a plastic bucket that is nearly full of various S&W 45 cylinders. I have made them from 357 cylinders, 44 mag cylinders. I have 5 different 45 molds and sizers in .452, .454 and .457 I have shot buckets full of ammo from them. I HAVE LEARNED a whole lot about them.

Just loading .454 bullets will NOT fix all early 45 accuracy problems. Some yes. All, hardly

An accurate 45 revolver should make a group where all the holes nearly touch at 25 yards

NOT THIS


I suggest YOU learn before you post erroneous and misleading information.

IMHO, the blued longer-barreled .45 ACP revolver is no longer desirable or saleable to the younger generations. Those few folks who shoot .45 ACP in revolver competitions use tuned SS revolvers, and the CCW versions are also SS. The SS revolvers and capacity of semi-auto pistols (and their prevalence- 1911s, M&Ps, etc.) has probably doomed the Model 25 in .45 ACP forever. I have a 6-1/2" Model 25-2 that is a tack driver, and I shoot it often alongside my Model 1917. I also like the modern .45 Colt cartridge, even though it was pooh poohed by Mike "Duke" Venturino in a recent "Wheelgunner" article. I shoot .45 Colt in a Winchester 94AE carbine and Uberti Cattleman, and it's an excellent round. The fact that both S&W and Taurus chamber it in their Governors and Judges is also a testament to its effectiveness.

I always wanted a pinned 6.5 “ Model 25 or pre model number but never got one. A long time ago I did find a mid 60s 6.5” Model 29 which I mostly shoot .44 Specials from. This filled the requirement for a large frame big large bore revolver with good accuracy and soft recoil when .44 Specials are used.

The last new S&W that I bought was a model 34-1 in 1978. If the factory turned out a new .45 ACP with a tapered 6.5” barrel and called it a Model 26 1950 Target in the classic series I might be tempted to open my wallet.

Since I don’t see this happening I will continue to have fun tracking down the old stuff.

I think that when S&W runs out of frames for any of the models that will be the end of production. Classic models will be built on the new frames and will have MIM parts, barrels ala Dan Wesson, rubber grips, ect.
Gun Gobblers can put their new ones in drawer beside their Rough Rider that shoots better than a K22.