Shipping, less cylinder?

As copied from the Mag-na-port website.

"You may ship a complete handgun or semi-automatic pistol through U.P.S. (United Parcel Service) using Next Day Air Saver or Federal Express Priority Service. Only F.F.L. (Federal Firearms Liecense) holders and law enforcement may use the U.S. Post Office to ship a handgun or semi-automatic pistol. However if you are shipping a barrel only, slide & barrel, or handgun (less cylinder) you may use U.P.S. Ground Service or FedEx. "

So if the cylinder is removed, a revolver doesn't have to be shipped over night?

dpsix said:

So if the cylinder is removed, a revolver doesn't have to be shipped over night?

Click to expand...

That is correct, it isn't a complete weapon without the cylinder.

There is a certain strangeness shipping through UPS or Fedex. There are very few laws concerning shipping firearms and they mostly concern the post office. It turns out these ovenight rules are put in place by the shipping companies. And sometimes they don't even follow them. Some folks have no issues going to either shipping company, declaring a handgun and then are offered ground or 2nd day delivery. That happened to me once. Other times it's strictly overnight. I guess it depends on the clerk.

Now on to definitions. The Feds call a firearm, a complete firearm or the part of the firearm containing the complete serial number. So, under Federal law a bare frame with the complete serial number is a firearm and all the rules governing firearms apply. A revolver, less cylinder would still be a firearm in the eyes of the law. If UPS and Fedex have different rules than those definitions, it's news to me. In any event, if you want shipping insurance, you must declare a handgun or any other firearm AFAIK. I know manufacturers and distributors as well as some online gun stores ship UPS & Fedex 2nd day with insurance without issue. I rekon the shipping companies have a special deal with them.

It upsets me because I can send my gun to S&W for warranty work. They will email me a prepaid 2nd day Fedex label to ship the gun to them. In turn, they will send the repaired handgun back to me 2nd day Fedex. But, If I want to send my gun to someone else for gunsmithing, I'm supposed to ship overnight. Where's the logic in that?

Most folks forgo the insurance, don't declare a firearm and take their chances with the shipping options of their choice. Of course, if your hangun is lost or stolen in shipment then it's on your dime. Some folks believe the shipping companies require overnight service for handguns because the handgun spends less time in transit and thereby is a less tempting target for company thieves. Others, myself included, believe it's a revenue producer for the shipping companies.

Let us know how all this works out.

Tyrod,

Having sent several S&W's back to the factory over the years I can tell you they will accept a weapon no matter how you choose to send it. When I ship a weapon I never state what is inside the box. IMHO you increase the risk of loss if you do declare it to be a weapon. What dpsix posted is exactly the information from magnaport. Having sent them a couple of weapons over the year they will take them even from usps as long as the weapon isn't complete.

Although I cannot recall exactly where I saw this information, I did read within the last week that since ATF considers a bare frame/receiver (less any other parts) to be a firearm, that mailing a handgun as the OP describes (minus the cylinder) is indeed a violation of both federal law and postal regulations.

Sure, you would save $50-60 doing it that way, but you could potentially lose far, far more.

"Although I cannot recall exactly where I saw this information, I did read within the last week that since ATF considers a bare frame/receiver (less any other parts) to be a firearm, that mailing a handgun as the OP describes (minus the cylinder) is indeed a violation of both federal law and postal regulations."

The OP was talking about shipping, minus cylinder, via UPS and/or FedEx.

BTW, you can mail barrels and slides. They don't have to go UPS or FedEx.



"However if you are shipping a barrel only, slide & barrel, or handgun (less cylinder) you may use U.P.S. Ground Service or FedEx."

I have no doubt that what dpsix claims is true. And I realize that if you don't tell the shipper what's in the package, you may ship it via UPS & Fedex using any service they have.

Here is a quote from UPS website. Red highlites are mine.
"Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States), law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.

Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.) UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally.
UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.

Follow These Packing Requirements
Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages tendered to UPS for delivery.
All firearms are to be shipped in new corrugated packaging which meets the UPS Single Wall Box Strength Guidelines. Medium and large UPS boxes may be used for smaller shipments being shipped via UPS Express service.
All firearms are to be packaged in accordance with UPS Packaging Guideline Specifications.
Ammunition must be shipped separately from packages that contain firearms (including handguns).
Ammunition will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments, and must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials.

About Documentation and Labeling
The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.
The labeling and outer box markings on all firearms shipments should not identify the contents as containing a firearm. Labeling, including the shipper's and consignee's abbreviated names on the shipping label or air shipping document, must be non-descriptive.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via, UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments."

Excerpt from 18 U.S.C. § 921 as referenced from UPS:

"(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm"
"(29) The term "handgun" means -
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be
held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in
subparagraph (A) can be assembled."

The trick here is to make UPS happy. If you claim your package contains machine parts or something other than a handgun and you want insurance on your delivery, UPS won't honor the claim for loss because you didn't tell them it was a handgun. UPS doesn't have their own definition of a handgun. They use the definition of US Code.

So, Magnaport is wrong! A handgun less cylinder is still a handgun. You must tell them it's a handgun and you must ship via one of their overnight services if you expect them to honor any loss insurance claims. If you don't care about insurance then ship it any way you want and don't tell 'em what it is.

BTW, FEDEX policy is exactly the same.

UPS: Shipping Firearms

18 U.S.C. § 921 : US Code - Section 921: Definitions

logictox said:

Tyrod,

Having sent several S&W's back to the factory over the years I can tell you they will accept a weapon no matter how you choose to send it. When I ship a weapon I never state what is inside the box. IMHO you increase the risk of loss if you do declare it to be a weapon. What dpsix posted is exactly the information from magnaport. Having sent them a couple of weapons over the year they will take them even from usps as long as the weapon isn't complete.

Click to expand...

You obviously completely mistook my statement and point of view.

So if I ship a handgun to a FFL thru UPS or FedEX, I'm not in violation of any law. What will FedEx or UPS do if (and it's a big IF) they find out there really is a gun in the package? As far as insurance goes, if they lose the package how do they know what was in it in the first place?

More to the point, how does the postal clerk know that a FFL holder is shipping the pistol to another FFL? Is there any sort of check in the system? Does the shipping FFL have to display his license?

Beemer-mark said:

So if I ship a handgun to a FFL thru UPS or FedEX, I'm not in violation of any law. What will FedEx or UPS do if (and it's a big IF) they find out there really is a gun in the package? As far as insurance goes, if they lose the package how do they know what was in it in the first place?

More to the point, how does the postal clerk know that a FFL holder is shipping the pistol to another FFL? Is there any sort of check in the system? Does the shipping FFL have to display his license?

Click to expand...

They will require you to prove what the contents and value of the package was before they will pay the insurance, such as a receipt of sale.

If you are referring to a US post office then you have to provide a form 1508 to the postal clerk when you declare the firearm.

Jim