Vintage ratchet repaired

BMCM

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Afternoon Gents,

I have this 1951 vintage Pre M27 (shooter grade) on the healing bench. The complaint was Cylinder binding on the forcing cone so I suspected a bent ejector rod or sprung yoke or perhaps both were at fault.

When the revolver got here, sure enough I found about .015" runout in the ejector rod and the yoke sprung towards 3 o'clock by about .020". I straightened that stuff out and corrected some end shake in both the yoke and the cylinder. However all was not well.

I found the hand was skipping off the ratchet occasionally so I took a closer look and oh my:eek:

IMG_8440b.jpg


Note the ratchets at 12:00, 4:00 and 8:00 o'clock each have a substantial chunk of steel chipped off. Several smaller dings & divots noted elsewhere on the other ratchets.

While exploring options to get this gun back in operation the thought struck me... Let's see if the damaged areas can be built up. I have neither the equipment or skill to weld on something this tiny but I bet my friend Tony up at Micro Precision Welding can do it.

I marked up a blown up macro image of what I wanted built up with weldment and arranged to get the part sent off to Michigan

IMG_8440c.jpg


Several days later I got it back with all the buggered areas filled in.

IMG_8445a.jpg


I fixtured the thing upright in a small V-block on the mill and shaved off the high spots. The weldments were pretty hard so I had to use a carbide tool.

IMG_8449a.jpg


After no small amount of tedious filing and checking with a tiny 2cut barrette needle file, I think were done. Hand is not skipping ratchets nor dragging on trigger return. Carry up is good as is chargehole alignment. I do believe I'll be sending this one home next week.

IMG_8452a.jpg


Tony up there at Micro Precision Welding has done several jobs for me in the past, namely welding tiny stuff that's not in my wheelhouse, and has without fail provided superior work so I thought I'd throw out a plug for him here.

Cheers
Bill
 
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Two more thumbs up for Tony!

He's done a couple of jobs for me and his work was excellent.

I also must agree with armorer951, as replacement parts dwindle, we find ourselves being compelled to adopt the techniques of conservators.

John
 
Just curious. What possibly could have done that kind of
damage to the ratchet?
 
Nice job!
Two questions:
Do you think that the weld bond will hold up?

How do you think that the difference in hardness will affect the interaction between the ratchet and the hand?

armorer951 is right. I think we will be using this type of repair more and more as we go forward.
 
I have no doubt in my mind that the "weld bond" will hold up. Steel is fused into one solid piece. No doubt a small tig torch was used. The torch created a small concentrated arc that melts parent and filler together. If the filler metal was considerably harder than the original ratchet metal and harder than the hand, any future wear would be on the hand and not the ratchet. Not that hard or a file would skate instead of cut. Sometimes small welds have a harder surface from rapid cooling, Might have to replace the hand in 10,000 rounds or so.

I have seen tig tungstens that are about the size of a small automatic pencil lead. Sharpened to a fine point with a good controller the heat is very concentrated and shielded from atmosphere by an inert gas. Some guys can weld some amazingly thin stuff together with a good tig torch.

I have a couple triple lock barrels that are not survivable. But, I plan to cut the shroud off one and have it welded to a modern 45 barrel after I cut off shroud off it.
 
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Excellent job Sir! While I'm confident there are still parts to be had, there's nothing like doing a quality repair job on your own! Not a bad set of skills to have either as parts for vintage Smiths won't be readily available forever.
 
My bet it is lazer welded under a microscope. Used to do that myself for many years. The toolman.
 
This is a great post. While not totally obsolete I have a few bad ratchet teeth on my 629-3 classic. I already have the widest hand possible installed and it barely carries up on 2 chambers. I have thought about trying to repair my ratchet because I do own a TIG.

It seems the only way to get an old style ratchet it to buy an old style cylinder but you have no idea what you're getting and the cost is not cheap. I could also fit a new cylinder with new style extractor but once again you have no idea if a new chamfered cylinder looks the same as the old classic does.
 
Hi Bill,

Excellent work and thx for the write up!

Have a question: I see that extractor ratchet has the spanner nut in the center. Once the nut is un-threaded, is the shaft supposed to separate from the extractor star? I've unscrewed the nut with a spanner wench but the parts do not come apart.
 
Hi Bill,

Excellent work and thx for the write up!

Have a question: I see that extractor ratchet has the spanner nut in the center. Once the nut is un-threaded, is the shaft supposed to separate from the extractor star? I've unscrewed the nut with a spanner wench but the parts do not come apart.

Regarding this particular part, it sure looks to me like the shaft and ratchet plate were machined as a single piece after being silver brazed together.

IMG_8456a.jpg


I see a small inside radius at the junction of the plate & shaft. It's most apparent right where the key cut ends at the slitting saw cleanup cut. Looks like some cleanup cuts were made post brazing the cleanup the extra glue (brazing metal) and cut off the shallow radius left by the keyway cutter.

I also find it odd that the rim of the spanner is knurled and appears to be pressed in place. I can see displaced steel that meshes with that knurling all around the circumference of the bearing ring.

IMG_8454a.jpg


I see the spanner as an aid to assembling the ejector rod without putting undue force on the locating pins or risk shearing off the key on the cylinder.

In this particular example I don't see any parting line where anything could be unscrewed. Not my gun either so I won't even think about trying.

Cheers
Bill
 
Just curious. What possibly could have done that kind of
damage to the ratchet?

Well the thing is 70 years old so who knows:rolleyes: Were I to take a guess.... Well we know the cylinder was binding up against the forcing cone due the the bent ejector rod & sprung yoke so I imagine one could easily surmise that grabbing a BIG handfull of trigger to get that stuck cylinder moving might have been the cause. Those big chips look to be right in the line of force of the hand shoving against a cylinder that wont turn... And then the ratchet tooth gives way. Just guessing mind you;)

Cheers
Bill
 
Regarding this particular part, it sure looks to me like the shaft and ratchet plate were machined as a single piece after being silver brazed together.

I see a small inside radius at the junction of the plate & shaft. It's most apparent right where the key cut ends at the slitting saw cleanup cut. Looks like some cleanup cuts were made post brazing the cleanup the extra glue (brazing metal) and cut off the shallow radius left by the keyway cutter.

I also find it odd that the rim of the spanner is knurled and appears to be pressed in place. I can see displaced steel that meshes with that knurling all around the circumference of the bearing ring.

I see the spanner as an aid to assembling the ejector rod without putting undue force on the locating pins or risk shearing off the key on the cylinder.

In this particular example I don't see any parting line where anything could be unscrewed. Not my gun either so I won't even think about trying.

Cheers
Bill

Hi Bill,

That makes perfect sense! Thank you.

I have removed a couple with a proper spanner wrench. They remove easily and nothing comes apart when they're removed.

It's basically a cap screw that has a threaded stud about 1/4" in length which extends thru the star and threads into the shaft. I believe you're correct, it just adds extra support to the alignment pins/keyway, and the brazed, press fitted, or thinly machined juncture, whatever it is.
 
I purchased this revolver off Gunbroker about a year ago. The seller had extensive positive feedback, and advertised it as a shooter grade revolver with finish wear, but mechanically sound with "no push off, timing, or lockup issues". The price was fair for a revolver with that description. I picked it up right before heading overseas for work for several weeks, so didn't notice the issues until well after I bought it. To be fair, I think the dealer I bought it from might not have been aware of all the issues, although I could feel the cylinder "wobble" slightly when I picked it up. I asked Bill if he would consider trying to repair it, along with another abused revolver, and he was kind enough to take this project on. I am absolutely thrilled with the work he did on my other revolver, and his efforts on this one. I can't wait to shoot it! I take pretty good care of my firearms, so suspect it will be in great shape long after I am gone! Thanks, Bill!
 
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