Does the M&P manual safety lock up the trigger or what does it exactly do?

Also, does the safety have to be off (down) to be able to retract the slide, like a 1911 or can a round be chambered with the safety up?

I haven't tried one in a gunshop yet; do these safeties work hard and have a positive click when engaged?

Good questions. I hadled one briefly. I do remember that the safety worked easily and there was a positive click. I don't think the slide can be racked with the safety engaged. But I'm not positive.

Im no expert on these, I think the safety replaces the lock with a lever that blocks the trigger. I have a M&P 45 with the saftey and yes you can work the slide with the safety engaged. I like this as you can load and unload with the saftey on. It does engage with a click but is not as positive a feel as the safety as a 1911 style gun. All in all I like the safty as it adds a level of security if someone gets your gun from you, it's one more thing to figure out to make it go boom!

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Stay safe people!

Blocking the trigger would be a complex mechanical process involving long levers that would have to get past the magazine well. While I don't know, I expect that the manual safety operates like the magazine safety/disconnector and moves the trigger bar so that it won't release the sear. Or, it might block the sear. Both of those are possible with rather minor changes to the sear block.

Vulcan Bob, how's about a quick trial and let us know? Operating the safety with the slide assembly off should let you determine what's going on.

I had emailed S&W 2 or 3 times and asked them to explain how all the safety features work on their M&P models in detailed layman terms.

I was trying to decide if I wanted to sell my 40 compact and buy one with a thumb safety. Not really comfortable carrying with one in the chamber till I know what feature and how it works will prevent the firing pin from accidentally or by malfunction striking the bullet.

All I ever got was 1 response that asked what model and serial number I had. Nobody else from there ever replied. I was shocked because they are so well known for their service.

Never had one apart but I would guess that it blocks the sear from releasing the striker. It still incorporates the firing pin safety where the trigger bar lifts the firing pin block that keeps the striker from going forward till the trigger is all the way to the rear.

So there is an actual physical block that blocks the firing pin till the trigger is pulled? And if the sear should malfunction / break and the pin comes forward this block would keep the gun from firing?

That is the theroy. On third generation guns there is a lever that lifts the firing pin block, on the M&P it's made as part of the trigger bar.

I guess my reason for asking was, that I was looking to get an M&P, and I thought that if I used it at the range in a holster extensively, the lever safety would be one more safety against some sort of accidental/negligent discharge, when reholstering.

I've met two people who in the past have shot themselves in the leg, when reholstering; one with a 1911 where they forgot to put the safety on a when it was cocked and a round chambered and when they reholstered, they didn't keep their finger out of the trigger guard. His fault obviously.

The other incident, was with a dao gun, no safety, and when they reholstered, a shirt tail or some piece of clothing, got caught on the trigger, and bang. The guy showed me the scar down his leg, to make me see what could happen if you're not careful. In this instance, if a manual safety had been on the gun, and the safety engaged, the shot would have never went off.

I saw a rookie cop shoot himself like that with a Glock 22. Left an impressive scar as well.

He was wearing a raid jacket with drawstrings on each side. One of the plastic pulls for the drawstring flopped over into his holster. He reholstered and it went inside the trigger guard and......

Another reason I don't like DAO striker fired pistols with no safeties. Regards 18DAI.

Wow, I would hate to leave it up to theory. Can anyone confirm this for a fact?

Oh yeah. It can be a scary thing to see someone stuff their striker-fired pistol into a belt holster and be unaware they've captured some article of clothing with the gun in the holster, especially something which is forced near the trigger. Much like watching someone reholster a cocked 1911 without engaging the safety lock (thumb safety) or a revolver with the hammer cocked in single action. Scary.

The thumb safety on the M&P series incorporates a metal surface on the right lever which, when raised, blocks rearward movement of the trigger bar and prevents it from reaching the sear nose (and lifting it up to release the striker). The lever can remain raised (on safe) while the slide moves.

The magazine safety operates differently, from the opposite side of the trigger bar, so to speak (on the 'inside' of the trigger bar's tail). There's an angled surface on the steel safety lever which deflects the rear of the trigger bar away from the sear (to the right) when the lever isn't being lifted upward by a magazine. Its' really a pretty simple design compared to that in the 3rd gen guns.

The M&P striker safety plunger is lifted by a vertical extension of the trigger bar, much like the Glock and 99 series, which lifts the plunger when the trigger is being pulled.

In the 3rd gen S&W pistols there's a dedicated firing pin safety plunger lever which is moved by pulling the trigger (moving the lever to lift the plunger and free the firing pin for movement). Pulling the trigger pushes the drawbar forward, and the bottom of the pivoting FP safety lever is pushed forward by contact with the drawbar, lifting the top of the lever upward against the safety plunger.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thanks Fastbolt, I was about to go and get the M&P .45 and check the operation of the saftey. It felt like a trigger block but after W R Moore's post I was going to look and report back.

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Stay safe people!

Please excuse my less than professional pictures, but I have an older camera which doesn't do close ups well, and I'm not taking my time to position things as well as some other folks do when taking pictures. I'm just trying to hold the frame steady with one hand, manipulating the trigger bar (and holding a brass punch) and taking the picture through a magnifying bench lamp with the other. Not the steadiest of positions ...

Anyway, here's a couple images that may help a little.

Here's with the safety lever in the UP, or on, position. Notice the curved metal part pushed up against the rear of the trigger bar where it makes a 90-degree turn inward (the trigger is being pressed until it's stopped for illustration only). Notice how the angled ramp of the rear of the trigger bar has not reached the front of the sear. (I edited the image to make it a bit brighter and reposted it.)


Here's an image where the safety lever is in the DOWN, or off position, allowing the trigger bar to move rearward enough to have levered the nose of the sear upward. The tip of the brass punch is pointing to the front of the lever's angled arm which was previously pushed up against the rear of the trigger bar in the last image. (I bumped the trigger bar outward - to the right- with the brass tool and disconnected the rear of the trigger bar from the sear, however.)

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Davidwilp-the M&P has a two part striker safety system. There's the firing pin plunger, which locks the firing pin until the trigger moves the trigger bar through its entire travel. There's also the hinged trigger that prevents the trigger bar from moving unless there's a finger-or other object-that moves the trigger through its entire travel.

In other words, it isn't going to go boom unless the trigger is stroked its entire travel. FWIW, the trigger on a stock M&P is similar to that of a very well tuned revolver. Do you have to be careful about holster selection, digit placement and making sure the holster is clear before inserting the weapon? Yes, but you should be doing this with any weapon system. Do not EVER depend upon mechanical widgets to protect yourself from injury.

WR Moore & Fastbolt. Thank you. I feel a little more comfortable now. I have carried a snub nose for years and never ever gave it a second thought. Never bothered me in the least. Just put it in the holster, put it in my pants (appendix) and off I went.

Since I bought the M&P 40 compact about a month ago I don't carry it pointed at my privates and have yet to carry with 1 in the chamber. I know I need to but it is this mental thing about something not working as it should and boom.

There's something to be said for those long & heavy DA revolver triggers.

I'd never recommend that someone carry a handgun as a defensive weapon if they were uncomfortable with it. Never. Just like I wouldn't suggest they get a driver's license and a car if they weren't comfortable with the idea of driving and felt they'd rather get around by other means. Or learn to ride a motorcycle just because they were comfortable driving cars & light trucks.

I'd never consider recommending someone carry a semiauto if they were more comfortable with DA/DAO revolvers (presuming they had a choice and it wasn't a job requirement, of course).

I try to shy away from making specific recommendations to folks unless I know something about their knowledge, skills and experience ... and I'd really prefer to have had some time working alongside them on the range.

I've never disagreed with a non-LE shooter during a class when they said they weren't comfortable carrying a semiauto pistol and only wanted to carry a DA revolver. Their choice. I agreed with them understanding the limits of their knowledge (familiarization & safety), training, experience, confidence and comfort and choosing to use a revolver if that's what they used safely and well.

I've seen some folks shoot their revolvers noticeably better than their 'new' semiauto pistols, too.

In forums like this one I'll sometimes explain some of what I've learned about some firearms as an armorer, but it's only for the purpose of polite discussion and general informational purposes. Not to recommend or convince someone to do something with which they're unfamiliar, or lack the training and experience to know how to do it safely. That's for the folks who can be present as 'hands-on' trainers, not something done over the internet.

I don't care how many safety features a firearm may possess, either, I don't like to completely place my trust in them to the exclusion of experience and common sense. I like to minimize my exposure to unnecessary risk. The longer I'm around firearms, carrying them and training in the use of them, and helping train others to use them, the more cautious and conservative I become in my approach to handling, manipulating, carrying them and using them.

BTW, I carry a S&W J-frame more often than I do a semiauto pistol now that I'm retired. I use a pocket holster, though, to keep the trigger guard covered. Just in case.

It pays to be safe. There's a saying in risk management circles ... Predictable is Preventable.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I love my new 40C and I want to carry it. I just need to get comfortable.

Thanks for the internal gun pictures!

You're welcome. There are better ones floating around the forum somewhere, done by folks with much better cameras and more skill, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

It can be racked with the safety engaged.

The M&P, like the Springfield XD is a single action pistol.

Using increasingly accepted newer definitions, the M&P is considered a DAO pistol because of how the sear's rear profile still moves the striker backward, even though it's not very much. That's how it was explained to us, anyway.

I try not to get to wrapped up around the axle about how a number of the manufacturers are using nuances and subtleties when it comes to labeling their new designs, though.

The "Constant Double Action" description used by Glock, for example, can get even some Glock enthusiasts to arguing. I've even listened to an argument stating that HK engineers are wrong to describe the functioning of the P7 as gas operated. How about Sig's Enhanced Double Action (which is what they technically call the design more commonly labeled the DAK)? Or the LEM?

I'm willing to accept whatever a particular manufacturer has decided to call their new design, as it fits within the guidelines used by ATF.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Whether or not a particular definition is accepted or not doesn't change the fact that it is what it is.....a single action mechanism. The striker is held at the fully cocked position by the sear until the sear releases it. If you think it's anything else you're kidding yourself.The only reason the striker moves rearward (imperceptibly) is because the sear has a slight camming effect as it travels through a very small arc when it releases the striker.

By design, apparently.

This sort of "definition ambiguity" doesn't really bother me, though, any more than a Double Action revolver being called a Traditional Double Action revolver, or vice versa.

How about when the early description of DA revolvers including 'trigger cocking'?

Then there's the whole 'traditional double action' pistol description commonly used to describe DA/SA capable pistols.

Then, there's also some folks who apparently like to argue that a 'true' DAO pistol's trigger can be functioned repeatedly without having to have the slide retracted a certain distance, and that DAO pistols which can't do this aren't 'true' DAO pistols ... which would apparently require the 'traditional' S&W metal-framed DAO pistols be described as something other than DAO, as well as Glock's 'constant' DA pistols.

As for kidding myself? Why would I have to be kidding myself?

I don't much care what S&W calls their design. (Or what any other manufacturer calls one of their new designs.) Hair splitting, shading of terms or even outright sophistry don't really bother me in some instances. I only need to understand how it operates, be able to safely handle and manipulate it, maintain it, shoot it and perform simple repairs if needed. I don't see the value of trying to convince a manufacturer that they should change their descriptions.

Kind of like hearing folks 'take sides' when it comes to calling a specific part a striker or a firing pin.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

M&P .40 come with thumb safety optional. Mine is with. Trigger safety is additional. I don't know if either blocks trigger or striker. Word I hear is that in a high-stress situation, or with a fire fight imminent, the cop does not need to deal with questions like is the safety on or off. I guess that is hard to understand for those of us who have never faced an instantaneous life or death decision with ones-self or an assailant. Just pull trigger, bang. The Glock success, I'm told, is that simple is better. Pull trigger and bang.

elrodcod - I see your new here, welcome!

FYI, Fastbolt is far and away the most experienced S&W semi auto pistol expert - (yes, expert, and I don't throw that term around lightly as some here do) on this board. His expertise is not limited to S&W semi auto's either.

A S&W trained agency armorer (among other brands as well) he has advised many, who were wise enough to listen, on this and many other gunboards, on all things semi auto.

What he has forgotten about handguns, I'll never know. I personally have learned much from his posts.

The S&W rep, who was present at my former agencies T&E of the M&P 40 pistol, referred to it as a "DAO". I expect, like Fastbolt, HE knows what he's talking about.

Perhaps you post came across differently than you intended. Hard to tell sometimes without the use of emoticons. Regards 18DAI.

I'm impressed.

http://http://www.genitron.com/Handg...il.asp?ID=2984

Genitron.com: Details for Smith & Wesson M&P Compact 9mm Luger Pistol

this might work better..

Your welcome in advance...

Fastbolt: Are you confident in the in the M&P mechanism that holds the striker back and the mechanism used to block the striker until the trigger is pulled in terms of nothing breaking and accidentally letting the striker pin make the bullet go bang?

Not speaking for fastbolt, but I don't think anyone would tell you it's absolutely impossible. For example, it would be possible for the striker to break forward of the locking device. In fact, I've seen a picture of an early design striker that did extactly that, breaking at the forward spring retention collar. However, in that particular instance, the lack of mass of the free part didn't/wouldn't strike the primer hard enough to fire the round. Would it be possible for the striker to break at a point that would release the striker with enough force to fire the round? Don't know.

What you are postulating is extremely unlikely. The striker is retained in position by the sear, locked by the firing pin safety device. In order for the weapon to fire, the hinged trigger must actuate the trigger bar, which then both releases the firing pin safety plunger and the sear in order to fire the weapon.

However, you're the only person who can make the decision concerning your perceived level of safety. I can tell you we have-collectively at work- over 800,000 person hours of carry without incident.

Assuming something broke and the striker did lunge forward, presumable the "striker safety" (don't know the actual term for it) would prevent the striker from hitting the primer I would think. Isn't there a safety that is only moved out of the way by action of pulling the trigger?

I certainly agree that when it comes to mechanical equipment, used by people, never say never.

People can abuse a piece of equipment, not maintain it properly, not be as familiar with it as they should be, not handle & manipulate safely or properly as intended, etc ... and risk having something cause a functioning problem or an unsafe condition.

Then there's the potential for an unknown manufacturing defect to occur.

The thing is that the engineering team that developed this gun anticipated that it would be carried and used by LE customers. They had the benefit of years of experience with a couple of other plastic-framed, striker-fired pistol designs under their belt when they were working on this new design series. They also had the experience acquired since they first started making semiauto center fire pistols (starting back about '52 when the original M39 was being developed for military consideration). It's not like they're exactly new to semiauto pistols.

The M&P trigger safety is a hinged design, incorporating a hinged trigger block. The trigger block is disengaged by pressing on the lower section, which pivots the trigger block out of the way and allows the trigger to be pressed to the rear to release the striker. As with any handgun, but especially with those which incorporate a safety in the trigger, protecting the trigger from contact with anything other than the intentional placement of the shooter's index finger is essential.

I seem to recall reading about one make of holster which had to be changed because it allowed part of the holster to contact the lower section of the M&P trigger during holstering, which could potentially result in an unintentional discharge. The same potential problem could occur, as has been discussed, if part of a garment were to become snagged in the trigger guard during holstering. Holster design, as well as holster selection for the desired application and safe/proper usage are important considerations.

The striker safety safety plunger is designed to block the striker from moving forward until the trigger is pulled.

The sear has a spring & plunger.

The gun is designed not to fire if the slide is out of battery 1/4" or more.

The magazine safety feature, in models so equipped, is designed so the trigger bar will not engage with the sear unless the magazine is inserted and displaces the lever upward.

The thumb safety, in models so equipped, blocks the trigger bar from moving to the rear to contact the sear.

The models equipped with the ILS (internal lock system) can be locked so that the trigger bar is disengaged from the sear.

The armorer manual recommends that the M&P should be completely disassembled by a qualified armorer once a year and inspected. Not an uncommon recommendation for service weapons. (Although even armorers are reminded that the sear housing block should never be disassembled for regular cleaning).

It's recommended that at least every 6 months, or after firing, the M&P pistol should be cleaned with attention given to the barrel, slide, frame & magazines.

Armorers are also reminded to look for signs of wear and spring damage, as well as signs of unauthorized polishing or filing. In other words, things that could potentially cause improper functioning (which could obviously be a safety issue). You'd think tinkering or attempts at modifying an issued gun wouldn't occur, but sometimes people are people.

Now, I trust my M&P pistols to function and operate as designed. I maintain and inspect them as recommended and as I've been trained. I'm very careful when it comes to selecting good quality factory fresh ammunition from one or another of the major ammunition companies which meets SAMMI specs and choosing holsters for safe, proper fit & function.

Safety occurs first and foremost between the ears. It's a constant state of mind which must not be compromised by inattention, complacency or lack of familiarity/knowledge.

In other words, while the company has obviously taken steps to make the M&P as safe as possible in design and manufacturing, it's still critical that the owner/user do their part when owning & using the gun.

I know folks who don't feel comfortable carrying a clocked & locked 1911 style pistol. Could a cocked & locked 1911 somehow end up in a condition which allowed it to fire? I used to know a fellow who reportedly stuffed one in his back pocket and jumped into his car ... and the wrong set of conditions occurred. He got a new hole in his butt.

However, I've known many more folks who experienced an unwanted discharge because of either improper handling, inattention, a stress-induced muscular interaction or some modification which resulted in an unsafe condition.

I've had the thumb safety become knocked off on a Commander which was produced before the series 80 firing pin safety. That's one of the reasons I came to own more 1911 holsters with either retention straps under the hammer, or else an open top model with a raised 'shield' which protects the thumb safety from contact with my torso. Personally, I feel more comfortable even carrying my 1911's which have firing pin safety plungers in holsters which protect the thumb safeties and/or have a strap under the cocked hammer.

Like I said earlier, I've become increasingly conservative when it comes to safety matters the longer I've been around guns (and I fired my first handgun and started learning to shoot more than 50 years ago).

Just because I feel safe carrying my M&P 45 w/thumb safeties and my M&P 40c w/o thumb safeties doesn't mean I think everyone else will feel the same way, although obviously if it involves an issued weapon I'd expect proper training and holster selection would allow the issued user to carry their issued weapon without undue worry ... presuming they didn't tinker with it and maintained it as recommended at the user level (field-stripping & cleaning) as taught and kept the agency armorer(s) informed of any unusual conditions which occurred (like complete submersion in water or some other contaminant, dropping the gun onto hard surfaces or other harsh conditions which could potentially damage something).

Then again, I still remember the time I was handed a freezer bag of almost the correct number of parts of an issued weapon. I was told the fellow to whom the gun had been issued had claimed to have thought it needed a more thorough cleaning and he'd tried to completely disassemble the gun (knowing full well it wasn't permitted except by an armorer or as authorized by an armorer). People are people, at times ...

I can't tell you whether lawfully carrying a M&P pistol is the right thing for you to do (especially as a member of the non-LE public). Not my place. I wouldn't presume to pretend I could make that decision for you, regardless of the design/make/model. I don't shill guns, anyway.

I've seen and been told of people experiencing unintentional discharges using handguns with heavy DA/DAO triggers, too, FWIW.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

The striker plunger safety in the M&P is lifted out of the way of the striker by the trigger being pulled, by virtue of a raised camming surface (located on a vertical extension of the trigger bar) being pushed under the bottom of the plunger.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer