S&W Customer Service FAIL

The following is a letter (not email) sent to S&W. It's pretty self explanatory. I had included a very detailed note with the pistol.


To Whom It May Concern;


I purchased a M&P22 in April, 2012. Right away I discovered how scarce magazines were. A reply to an e-mail I sent to the S&W store advised me there were a few in stock so I immediately ordered 3 online. A few days later I received a card stating they were on backorder. ???? Since they were not available elsewhere I would just have to wait.


The pistol was cleaned prior to the first trip to the range which turned into a big disappointment. The first pull of the trigger resulted in a CLICK, a misfire. An inspection of the round indicated a light primer strike. This situation repeated itself again and again, even the rounds that did ignite exhibited lighter strikes than I have ever witnessed with a .22. I tried four different brands of ammunition with the same results. It was a rarity that a full magazine functioned correctly. Each one of the misfired rounds was loaded into my Ruger and functioned fine.


Returning home I disassembled the pistol and found nothing obviously wrong. The second trip to the range was a repeat of the first. A total of 300 frustrating rounds had been expended.


I filled out the return form on-line and received a return label, the pistol was in your facility May 18th. On Monday the 21st I had a message on my machine from Jake, stating he needed to speak to me. I returned the call that afternoon only to get his voice mail, I left a message. Three days later after not hearing from him I left another message. Finally on May 28th after no replies I called customer service and the young man said he would send Jake a note. The next contact was an e-mail on June 8th, a shipping notification.


The pistol arrived on the morning of June 11th with a note saying everything was within spec, a magazine was fired without incident so no repairs were made. I could not believe what I was reading. A trip to the range that afternoon was exactly the same as the first, a CLICK with the first pull of the trigger. Misfire after misfire, light strike after light strike!! I cannot express how disappointed I am with Smith & Wesson. Now, what to do.


Feeling I had nothing to loose I decided to look deeper into the workings of the pistol. Due to continues light primer strikes I concentrated on the hammer / firing pin. With a few strokes of a file I removed .010" of material from the area of the firing pin that limits the crush depth of the pin. Back to the range resulted in 100% function, 300 rounds without so much as a hiccup. The brass now exhibit solid strikes like it should have from the start.


Let's recap;

1) I was told an item was in stock when in fact it wasn't.
2) Trained technicians were not able to observe an abnormal condition and correct it.
3) A return call was requested and then ignored.


What conclusion would you draw from this experience? I understand this is a low end, mass-produced product and situations do arise where some fine tuning to obtain reliable function is necessary but it shouldn't be left to the customer. If I, a simple country boy, can diagnose a problem, a Smith & Wesson "Pistol Tech" sure should.


END

Searching the threads I find this is evidently an anomaly for this model of pistol. It's a shame the "Pistol Techs" can't recognize a light primer strike. Pistol Tech is S&W's label, not Pistolsmith or Gunsmith.

When all is said and done, the pistol is working great. I'm just not sure about the repair facility.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with S&W customer service. All of my experiences with them have been quite different from yours. For the record did you try multiple brands of ammuntion through your M&P22? Perhaps the ammo they used to test functioned fine and your ammo has harder primers, therefore requiring a harder hit from the striker.

I tried CCI Mini Mag, Federal Match, Winchester Super X, and Eley Match all with the same results. Each one of the misfires were loaded into my Ruger Mark II and worked fine. Once .010" more crush was introduced the pistol has been perfect. The firing pin is still hitting with the same force, just allowed to crush the primer deeper.

I would not doubt the attention paid might be substandard due to the gun being manufactured in Germany. In any event, no excuses, it is sold as a S&W. We expect the same level of attention.

I'm glad you have it sorted out. Look on the bright side; at least you have the satisfaction of knowing you fixed it yourself. Now go do your best to wear out the barrel in that thing.

SW did right by me on my Model 60-14, even though the tech on the phone said a repair was likely not necessary. I decided to send it in anyway, and they replaced some parts and fixed the issue that I had with the gun. I also know of one person who had his 686 cylinder replaced because of a cosmetic defect he found. SW told him it was not necessary, but he asked them to change it out, so they did.

I only mention this because with any company you will have good experiences and a few bad ones as well. But one experience does not establish a track record.

On a side note, I have a Marlin 39A with a rebounding hammer, and it took a lot of "fitting" to get rid of the light strikes. So, as the previous poster noted, take some satisfaction in having fixed it yourself. Good work there.

My only dealings with S&W's repair center was with my 10" at 15 yards splatter pattern FS 9mm M&P that was sent back with an adjusted rear sight. Another member that I've been in contact with in PMs had the exact same thing and got a replacement barrel.

Guess you win some, you lose some.

Bummer and totally unacceptable. I don't care how low end - mass-produced a product is -if it is being sold with S&W stamped on it - S&W should support it with the same vigor it supports its most valuable customer.

Personally, if you have time - I would keep calling Jake until I got him on the phone. I would really like to know how the gun was actually tested. Maybe he really did "test" the gun but using some other technique that doesn't actully fire the gun but relies on sensors...

On the "back order" card - make darn sure they didn't charge your credit card until the order is processed.

On a good note - you were able to fix the gun. If I encountered the same problem - I don't have the confidence to jump into a fix - I would have had to send it back.

Anyway - please let us know what S&W has to say.

M&P Freak said:

I would not doubt the attention paid might be substandard due to the gun being manufactured in Germany. In any event, no excuses, it is sold as a S&W. We expect the same level of attention.

I'm glad you have it sorted out. Look on the bright side; at least you have the satisfaction of knowing you fixed it yourself. Now go do your best to wear out the barrel in that thing.

Click to expand...

Are you saying the S&W M&P pistols are made in Germany?

GlenS said:

Are you saying the S&W M&P pistols are made in Germany?

Click to expand...

The M&P22 is made by Walther. Says "Made In Germany" right on the frame. All other M&Ps are made here.

M&P Freak said:

The M&P22 is made by Walther. Says "Made In Germany" right on the frame. All other M&Ps are made here.

Click to expand...

I have a S&W Walther P22Q. One thing I learned (it is documented all over the net) is if you use "underpowered" rounds you may encounter misfires. I have used CCI MiniMags without any problems.

Of all things in this world to get upset about, this situation wasn't one of them.

After my modification, when each pull of the trigger resulted in a bang, there was mixture of relief and gratification. Even the wife said she was impressed. She has been witness to the whole process.

Time now to put this all behind and proceed to wear the thing out!

Earnest P said:

...Feeling I had nothing to loose I decided to look deeper into the workings of the pistol. Due to continues light primer strikes I concentrated on the hammer / firing pin. With a few strokes of a file I removed .010" of material from the area of the firing pin that limits the crush depth of the pin. Back to the range resulted in 100% function, 300 rounds without so much as a hiccup. The brass now exhibit solid strikes like it should have from the start.

Click to expand...

Stop right there. Good job! Now why didn't you just do that in the first place?

Thanks for your story. Info like this is good to know.

FYI, when the person said the mags were in stock they may have been. The stock computer is not always up to date with the sales database. When asked they could have been in stock and right after that they were gone to someone whose order was in process at the same time. Not a valid complaint in my mind.

Earnest:

What mlapaglia said.... The sales desk's quantity figures, especially with a hard to find part that's been flying off the shelves, may not match what's actually on the shelf.

Suppose you have 100 widgets to sell, and three salespeople. Salesperson "A" sells 80, and Salesperson "B" sells 15. If Salesperson "C" doesn't know right now, and have a way of "locking" your request for the remaining five, you'll likely be getting the backorder notice....

Take it from a computer professional (among other things in my sordid past), even the best hardware/software mix may not be able to tell the sales desk what's really available, no matter how hard the software guys tried. There are idiosyncracies in some "real time" software packages that won't let the system "catch up" until everybody who's looking at a particular item has gone off and looked at something else.

About the light primer strikes.... No idea what/if testing S&W did, but it doesn't sound like much.... Some dirt in the firing pin channel, perhaps, and maybe it was cleaned and then tested, resulting in more dirt after that test magazine was fired.... But I'm guessing that it just wasn't quite done right in the first place, and the Tech got reliable ignition with whatever stuff they're testing with....

I have a Kimber .22LR conversion kit for 1911's that was running a little light, too. Not really their fault - I'd mucked with the mainspring - that determines how hard the hammer whacks the firing pin - and while getting a super trigger pull, made for an unreliable ignition. I just sharpened the thing.... Still stuck with a "use the good stuff" ammunition situation, but that was pretty much on the box in the first place, and ignition is reliable now. IAC, again, glad you could fix it.

A buddy had a Llama .40 (can't think of the model - sort of a 1911 COPY, rather than a clone). Light primer strikes abounded. He could fire some reloads that a club member loads, but nothing else, and not commercial SD stuff, either. Turned out that the drop safety setup was messed to the point that the "block" was rubbing on the pin, due to a divot raised on the block by the projections on the pin.... A little file work.... But he'd been carrying the thing, not realizing that only the reloads would work....

Regards,

Bottom line is that someone screwed up. This post is not about anyone's great experience is about S&W tech screwing up this particular service request. They should trace the tech who service this gun and address the issue seriously. Its just not right for us to have to deal with the aggravation because someone was to lazy to do their job.

This is not about underpower rounds as he tried 4 different brands and some of you keep questioning the rounds, get real!!

Glad to hear you solve your issue yourself!!!

SMMAssociates said:

Earnest:

What mlapaglia said.... The sales desk's quantity figures, especially with a hard to find part that's been flying off the shelves, may not match what's actually on the shelf.

Suppose you have 100 widgets to sell, and three salespeople. Salesperson "A" sells 80, and Salesperson "B" sells 15. If Salesperson "C" doesn't know right now, and have a way of "locking" your request for the remaining five, you'll likely be getting the backorder notice....

Take it from a computer professional (among other things in my sordid past), even the best hardware/software mix may not be able to tell the sales desk what's really available, no matter how hard the software guys tried. There are idiosyncracies in some "real time" software packages that won't let the system "catch up" until everybody who's looking at a particular item has gone off and looked at something else.

Click to expand...

Having 15 years experience in the auto parts business I am quite aware of computer indicated quanity on hand and reality. Had I been ordering a MAP sensor from one of my vendors and he replied "a few" I would have asked him to check the shelf or put his hand one one. But since S&W was my last resort source I had little recourse. A little irony is the mags arrived while S&W had the pistol.

I added the mag experience to the letter to enhance my unhappiness with S&W.

Another trip to the range today with 200 rounds expended with 100% function. Even with some 30 year old Remington

Earnest:

Definitely the same with auto parts - the part doesn't exist unless it's in your hands .... Even if you'd trust the guy on the other end of the phone line (or other medium) with your kids....

I had a goofy one with magazines a few years ago. Can't remember which gun - either a PPS40 or my first M&P. There was a coupon promo going - two free magazines with the right paperwork, and I went along with it. ($100 worth of magazines at retail really helped make the purchase decision. The web boards were full of "where the heck are my magazines?!" posts. I ordered a couple from Andean - they just happened to show 'em in stock, and I didn't know any better - and I really needed 'em. They showed up within a day or two of the ones from S&W.... No idea what was going on, but I'd guess that a container shipment from Elbonia happened, or wherever they were being made.

(Andean seems to have an odd reputation. If everything works, they're fine. Otherwise, it can get messy....)

Anyway, I'm glad you got yours working. Some people are hesitant to get inside a new gun for fear of losing something, or breaking something, or.... I'm not in that category, although I usually wait a little while if there are no malfunctions.... Usually.... There's a "fixit" gene in the family, and sometimes temptation gets the best of me.

(NEVER, EVER, take the sear assembly out of a P3AT. It's actually pretty simple, but about as non-intuitive as anything I've ever run into, and note that I've got two Para LDA guns here.... )

Regards,