I filled out my application for my permit to carry but haven't turned it in yet because the two M&P pistols that I have (which I put on my application) do not have thumb safeties. If I carry with one in the chamber, should I have a pistol with a safety? I'd like the opinion from the forum about carrying with or without a safety. I've seen lots of threads about with or without a chambered round, but in my mind that is not even a question, it has to be ready to go, but I'm not sure if it is smart to carry without a safety. (It's probably just a newbie type of question but that's why i asked it to this experienced group).

as has been said many times on different threads ...it is a matter of personal preference...I carry the BG380 (I know don't pick on me) without the safety on as the holster covers the trigger and with DA action I am not worried about an accidental discharge...again just my personal preference...

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Are you asking if it's LEGAL to carry with a round chambered, if the pistol has no safety?
Glocks are still sold in CA, aren't they?
Never seen a Glock with a manual Safety and almost everyone I know carries with one chambered.

None of my M&P's have a manual safety and I carry with one in the chamber.

It's what ever YOUR comfort level and experience dictate. Only YOU can make that determination.

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THIS WE'LL DEFEND ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

No, not asking if it is legal, just wanted advice. I guess I just wanted to have someone tell me that I'm not stupid for doing it.

Train for the style you will be carrying. Doesn't all that much matter if the safety is on or off provided it's carried correctly.
Get real familiar with your firearm presentation. Your life might depend on it.

If you carried a revolver it would not have a safety.

My safety is between my ears. But what works for me may not work so well for others.

I carry an M&P40 full size & a 40C. Neither have a safety. Before that I carried a Glock 23 & Glock 21 as duty weapons. No safety. Always have a round chambered. Always top the magazine giving me the mag capacity +1. Always carry in a holster that covers the trigger guard. Always keep my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot. Always reholster carefully insuring there's nothing that can get jammed in the trigger guard like a piece of material from a shirt.

The modern striker fired pistol is completely safe until the trigger is pulled. Besides in an oh, **** situation I don't want to take the time to flip the safety off & chamber a round.

A little trick to get your confidence up - pull the cocked but unloaded pistol from your holster a whole bunch of times. If you hear a click then you know you need more training in being careful & safety conscious.

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Former USN, Retired US Army

I would have no problem with that style of gun, but I'd make sure I had a proper holster for it. Again it's what you train with that's most important.

Modern pistols have plenty of built in safety's. I also carry glocks which do not have safety's so I don't use them on my M&P's. If you want to go for it just make sure you don practice draws with a safety checked firearm and practice removing the safety with your thumb as you bring the pistol into firing position.

Thanks everyone. I feel better now. I will practice and train as much with the holster as I have prior to thinking about carrying. (which is about 6K rounds per year) I know I need to get to the point where everything is almost automatic. Thanks again!

Keep in mind that in a crisis situation, your fine motor skills go right out the window and trying to flip off your safety might get you killed. If you want a little taste of that, shoot an IDPA event without any prior practice. It's not as much stress as a real confrontation, but it's more than standing at a static range punching paper. Stress does funny things to people.

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NRA R.S.O. & Life Member

I just got a 9C with safety. People always say train train train w/out one, well, you can train train train to be effective with one too and have an added level of comfort. The 9C safety can be removed if you wish, so if you gain confidence and with practice you keep your trigger finger in its proper place then you can decide.

+1 Do these. Safeties in modern pistols are crutches for those who don't have their mind focused properly and probably shouldn't be carrying without more training.

I have the Shield which has a safety. I turn the safety on to holster and then switch the safety off. Holstering is the most likely time to get an AD. Without a safety, be alert while holstering. Get a top quality holster that will cover your trigger and you will be fine.

in the service you always (for the most part) have the safety on in condition one, and its a simple thumb safety like the m/p, and there are times when that can be stressful. with that said, I waited to find a mp9c w/o any sort of safety. personal preference. like above, make sure you have an adequate holster with a trigger guard, and practice draws at home so you don't drag your booger hook over the trigger

I strongly disagree with this statement. I have been shooting since the '80's. I have no idea how many rounds I have down range, probably 10s of thousands. I have shot with some amazing shooters, Scott Warren, Taran Butler, etc. I am not some newby who is just starting out. I traded a polymer gun that had no external safety for one that did. I am used to having an external safety and having one on my cc gun just gives me an added layer of comfort. You can NEVER be to safe in my opinion.

I have 2 M&P .40's. I am removing the TS on both. I was a new gun owner when I bought the 1st, and wanted the same "accessories" on the 2nd so I wouldn't have to think about which 1 was with me. Now I feel comfortable enough to be without them.

As CommonCents stated:"keep your trigger finger in its proper place"

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Criminals don't register guns.

I appreciate all of the great advice. I've only ever shot pistols without the safety, and I am very comfortable with them at the range. I will follow all of this great advice and start to practice out of my holster (I think it is a good one - Galco Summer Comfort and it covers the trigger well). My local range also does IDPA events twice a month which I think I will start to do as well. Thanks again.

Yeah, but DA revolvers have a much stronger trigger pull (approx. 12 lb). Practically impossible to get accidental discharge.

I had a model 10 for years & traded it in on 9c (no safety). The trigger pull is about half of the 10 so I'm still trying to get my courage up to carry it with one in the chamber.

Besides I saw a guy on a cop show that carried it that way so it's got to be okay, right?

You are not stupid for asking this question or for carrying an M&P without a safety.

Where do you live? I have a full size M&P .45 with a thumb safety that you are welcome to come and shoot. It might give you some perspective.

As far as the CCW application goes; just submit it. You can always change the gun(s) later. It only costs a few dollars.

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Freedom isn't free.

millions of CCed Glocks with out thumb safety, having said that the MPs I buy have to have a thumb safety, but I'm used to carry 1911s is just a personal thing, just buy a good holster that covers the trigger area.

The only safety you ever need is between your ears .

I'm real old fashioned.

What makes the most difference is knowing the manual of arms with your handgun. This means LOTS of hands on repetition. Thousands of repetitions presenting your handgun from the leather. 99% of this can be done dry in your living room. Likewise thousands of rounds of dry fire.

I prefer Colt 1911's. The thumb safety is part of my muscle memory : how I grip, where my thumb goes (and stays: on top of the thumb safety), where my index finger goes, and when.

I think the biggest problem is finding a shooting location where you can actually shoot from the leather: few ranges allow it, so most folks don't get to actually practice shooting from the leather. And most folks won't do the homework (thousands of presentations from the leather) at home.

The safety less firearms scare me - in the hands of the incompetent. Unfortunately, few folks put in the time to develop the skills necessary to become competent.

In my experience, ND's are much more common with safety less handguns than with 1911 style handguns. Not only are garden variety NDs more common with non safety handguns, they are more likely to inflict injury on the gun owner: I know of ten NDs holstering a weapon using a polymer, striker fired non safety pistol for every similar ND with a 1911 type. I admit this isn't a scientific survey: just represents ND's I know about over the last 35 years


I think folks would do better putting in the time to learn the thumb safety than try to do without it

Just my opinion, of course.

I agree with everyone...I have a9c w/o a thumb safety and I CC all the time. Fee very comfortable. But my question is why do you need to id your CC firemarn on your CC application? I know allot of CCers that carry many different guns, depending on many different reasons.

The M&P has at least two safeties which operate passively.

There is a latch in the trigger which locks the trigger unless depressed. The main purpose of this safety is to prevent the trigger from moving if the pistol is dropped.

Secondly, the firing pin is positively blocked unless the trigger is pulled. The pin is unlocked in the short travel distance of the trigger before the sear is disengaged.

A possible third safety is that the firing pin is not fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.

Some pistols have a thumb safety, which generally locks the trigger and sear when engaged. Some have a grip safety which must be depressed by your hand in order to fire.

Either design is relatively safe (a completely safe firearm would be one which doesn't shoot), when used with due diligence.

Many people carry a 1911 style pistol, which is carried cocked and loaded, with both a thumb and grip safety to lock the hammer. You must remember to release the safety, and put it back on when re-holstering. That's part of the manual of arms, easily learned with training and practice. You must be thoroughly familiar with any weapon you carry for self defense (or any other purpose).

You're not stupid for doing it


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This is incorrect. The striker on an M&P is fully cocked once you rack the slide. It may move another .00001" as you pull the trigger, but if the sear were to simply fall on its own, which it won't, the striker would have enough force to fire the round (assuming the striker block miraculously moved out of the way, which it wouldn't).

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As I understand it, the M&P 45 slide mounted safety was only added per the military contract they were competiting for. For me, the 1911 thumb safety is located perfectly, whereas the M&P safety is awkward is comparison. It doesn't feel positive in engagement either. Thought the natural choice for someone weaned on a 1911 would be an M&P with a safety. Didn't work as I had hoped and I've since abandoned the safety idea on the M&P. I would actually prefer the safety if it worked as well as the 1911 safety, but taint so. The grip safety on the 1911 has always been problematic for me and I find that I need to pin the grip safety to be sure something like a bungled presentation keeps it from going bang every time. Glock ain't perfect either I've seen aftermarket slide mounted safeties added for those who aren't comfortable with the factory setup.

Can you cite a source for this information?

The thumb safety on my M&P .45 feels quite positive to me. Different strokes...

This is a grip issue and not a grip safety issue. Pinning the grip safety on a 1911 is never a good idea. But, that's a discussion for another thread.

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Freedom isn't free.

I've read this several places previously, but I'll leave you with a comment from our own authority, Fastbolt:

"When I originally asked about the thumb safety on a demo M&P 45, I was told that it had originally been developed because of an anticipated military bid spec for submission in some then-pending potential new military pistol testing (limited issue, not to replace the M9)."

From: Question on M&P 45

If it worked as well as on the 1911 for me, I would have been fine with it. It doesn't, in both location and feel.

It is a redundant safety that was born out a Calvary concern with horseback riders being able to safely reholster in hurry. Not everyone can reliably and consistently engage the 1911 grip safety, even with the best and most dedicated training. You can't train away a poor mechanical interface caused by unworkable hand proportions.

While it may be true that some people just can't work a 1911, I haven't personally met one. I have met a few who have had the same feeling as you are telling us here. With a little work I was able to get all of them to reliably operate the 1911.

I'm not saying what you're telling us isn't true; I do believe that you've had trouble with the grip safety. However, I also believe that it can be overcome. Then again, some guns are just not for some people; that's just life.

When I first started with a 1911, I too had trouble with the grip safety. Through training and practice I haven't had a single issue with it in over 15,000 rounds. Now, when I look back, I wonder why I ever had trouble with it.

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One suggestion is do not have your finger on the trigger as you pull the pistol out of the holster. In most situations today we don't have to be quick draw artists. We generally have time. Practice, practice, practice. If we react too quickly we may have to defend ourselves in a trial. More often than not it pays to delay your presentation until you are certain that your life is in danger or that of someone else. If possible get out of Dodge. When you do make your draw, insert your finger into the trigger guard as you focus on the target. If you had a safety that would be done by your thumb as you present the pistol on the target. I have a safety on my .40 MP Shield. It doesn't take me any time to deactivate it.

A good holster with full trigger coverage and a well disciplined trigger finger, is your safety.

I would also take some self defense classes. What you think you know, is probably wrong, if you have no experience.

As a redneck, I say run what you brung

I have a Shield 9 without a safety. Primarily because I am left handed and the safety can't be changed.

When I first started carrying I didn't chamber a round that was back in March. Took me a couple times out to get comfortable carrying and now carry with one in the chamber.

I just make sure that when I holster my gun I am careful and do it slowly as possible.


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I have an M&P Shield 9mm, a MP Bodyguard 380 and a Bodyguard 38 and none have safeties. I carry both automatics with a round in the chamber. The 380 is in a pocket (Holstered) and the Shield Holster by my side. When I carry the 38 it is always pocket carry in a DeSantis holster.

When we changed from revolvers to the semi-auto, our first pistol was the model 645. This generation of pistol was DA/SA, with a decocker. I never used the safety, it was always off. Same with the next model we had the 4506, and my off duty pistols the CS 45 & 4513TSW. Now pistols are mostly striker fire, I only have one pocket pistol like this. It has no safety. I prefer what I was trained on, and am reluctant to buy another striker fired pistol. My greatest complaint is the poor trigger.

Most that carry any Colt 1911A or variant carry cocked & locked safety on. (Hopefully!I kick myself in the *** for selling mine)
I just got my Shield 45 with safety & I can carry with safety on or off, a no brainer for old farts like me.
I LOVE this gun, my fav!

Seems to me consistency is of paramount importance.

If you have a shield with a safety, I believe you must either train with the safety on and muscle memory that you must always turn off the safety to fire and ALWAYS pit the safety back on when holstering.

OR

Buy a model or disable the safety and practice the care needed to safety operate the weapon in this case.

I think the worst thing to do is have the safety on in the holster and not in other cases. If you decide from day to day whether the safety is on or off, you might not remember which condition you have the safety in.

If you think you have it on and it is not, your technique to draw may result in AD. Or you will fumble for the safety to try to disengage it, and it was never engaged. Causing delay, delay that could cost you or a loved one their life.

I do. Ot know how it could happen, but Murphy's law seems to always seem to work. In which case you put the safety on, but somehow it flips off during your daily carry. Now you are trained to always disengage the safety. It it already is disengaged and again you fumble or it messes with your memory.

I don't care what other people choose, but I don't want a safety on a carry gun. If a person chooses the alternative I have no problem with that. It's just not my choice.

I was debating between the shield and the Sig 938. I just could not get past relying on a switch that every holster I saw was constantly exposed. And the fact that I HAD to manipulate that same switch I was afraid would go off at the wrong time, and. It go off when I wanted it. I know people love the 1911 style gun and safety. But I'm just not one of them! I doubt that I ever will be. And besides, I shoot a double action revolver way better than any 1911 I've ever shot.

I have no interest in a safety but I don't like the stock trigger for a carry gun for me. So I got an Apex Duty/carry trigger spring for my 9c. Then I did some DIY polishing and opened up the loop a bit. See here
My 9c trigger work

I know this thread was started some ago but just thought I would chime in with my 2 cents worth for future members.

When I first got my carry permit I was uncomfortable carrying with one in chamber, in time that has changed. I now carry with one in the chamber & safety on and practice flipping the safety off when drawing.

This week I purchased a M&P BG380 with NO safety I chose it because the BG380 safety works the opposite of all my other carry pistols. I plan on carrying in in a wallet holster in the summer months when warring shorts.



Today is all we have, live it to the fullest!

I mostly carry my Sig 938 and am most comfortable with SAO pistols. My IWB holster covers the controls...


I don't believe a 12# D/A trigger is safer than a 4# S/A trigger with manual safety. But to each his own poison.

Would you carry a revolver cocked and ready for a single action shot?

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Something really smart

Only true comparison is a 1911 or a DA/SA with the hammer back and safety off. A striker fired pistol without a safety is nowhere near the same thing as a revolver with the hammer back.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

You've made my point for me, thank you sir.

The post I quoted was comparing a revolver to a striker fired pistol, which isn't a fair comparison.

One could argue that a striker fired pistol, is much closer to a revolver with the hammer back than a revolver with the hammer forward. But I agree neither is a truly fair comparison.

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Something really smart

Not all striker-fired pistols are the same. When a round is chambered in a Glock, the striker will be held at approximately a half-cock position. The M&P and XD by contrast are pretty close to being fully cocked. There have even been a few striker-fired pistols that are true DAO where the striker will completely be at rest until the trigger is pulled essentially like a DAO revolver and have comparably long, heavy trigger pulls. Even with those that hold the striker at a nearly fully cocked position, the trigger pull is in no way comparable to a revolver cocked to single action.

I don't intend to sound condescending, but, I agree with RPG's recommendation to know the manual of arms of your chosen CCW pistol. Other than some relatively brief time carrying a 1911 (Army) and a fair amount of time carrying a Beretta Model 21, my experience carrying semi auto pistols with manual safeties is pretty limited. On the other hand, I've been carrying pistols and revolvers with no manual safeties for pushing 30 years, and have never had any accidents or negligence discharges carrying them with a round in the chamber. I've heard of a few, but some of those explanations were suspect, and others were because no holster was used, or an improper (cheap or worn out) holster was being used. It boils down to training in a safe and efficient manner.

I don't know what level of training you've had, but I would recommend you, or anyone periodically pursue training opportunities that build skills all the way up from basic gun handling to CCW-curriculum tactical shooting. In my local area, a weekend class taught by some decent local instructors runs up to about $200. Some of the local instructors in my area have trained with the big names over the years, and probably in yours too. It also doesn't hurt to read some of the publications from Mossad Ayoob, Grant Cunningham, etc.

Regardless of what pistol with or without manual safeties you choose, remember to train enough to be familiar with the weapon.

YEP!!!! Very true.