Broke my M&P 45 ... again

So last year I bought a 4" 45. I fired about 400rds thru it and after qualifying with it carried it for work. Some time around March of this year, my wife and I were out shooting with her co-worker and her husband. After a couple of hours I have a malfunction (failure to extract and double feed) without much thought I clear it and fire again. I have the same malfunction and this time I stop and look. I don't see anything wrong, but decide that maybe the ammo is the culprit so I use different stuff. I get the same issue. I know my duty ammo and mag are good so I use one of those mags - same thing. I clear the gun and lock it open and notice that the extractor does not look quite right. I ask my wife to clear her gun so I can take a look at it (she carries a M&P 9 and so does her co-worker). I look at the extractors and they are a different shape at the hook. I field strip the gun and now I see the crack where the extractor broke. I called S&W Customer Service and they had me ship the whole gun back and replaced the extractor. Up to this point I had about 800rds fired thru her - not a lot.

Fast forward to this weekend. Wife and I are out with some of her friends re-introducing them to firearms. I let one of them shoot my 45 and after she is done, I load another mag and fire a couple myself. After about 3rds I get a malfunction - double feed. I stopped and froze, Took a hard look at the extractor and it was broken again. Cleared the malfunction and tried to fire again - same malfunction. Called S&W and told them that this was now the second time this had happened. We will see what the come up with.

Any of you had this issue before?? I can understand it happening once, but twice to the same gun? Oh yeah, I had about 800rds thru that extractor.

I already went online to APEX and ordered 2 extractors from them. I'm going to pick up 1000rds of blasting ammo and make a day of it when I get the 45 back.

Semper Fi,

Luis R.

The only thing I can think of is that the extractor may be restrained from pivoting in its slot for some reason. Something stuck behind it or the slot not machined correctly.

So I am compelled to ask. Have you placed a round in the barrel from the ejection port and then released the slide?

I have an M&P .40...no problems. Sorry to hear about your issues.

Saudade said:

So I am compelled to ask. Have you placed a round in the barrel from the ejection port and then released the slide?

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NOPE. Was told that was bad juju for the 1911, and don't do it on any pistol. Always load from a magazine.


Semper Fi,

Luis R.

Thanks Luis. On some handguns it's OK, but it's a good practice to avoid.

Very odd it's happened twice. Hopefully the Apex part solves it.

In my experience, Smith & Wesson will make it right. And the right thing for them to do is to send you an entire new slide. Two failed attempts at factory repair suggest that a new slide is the only reasonable solution. I wouldn't spend any money with Apex just now. In general, S&W extractors are very robust. I have 15,000 rounds through my M&P 40 compact and my Shield .45 combined, and their extractors have worked flawlessly. When S&W rebuilt my 40c when it developed light strikes around 10,000 rounds, they replaced almost every part (free of charge) except the extractor. 1400 rounds post-rebuild, it's still extracting perfectly. Thus, I'd advise giving them another chance to make it right.

SWSIG - I know S&W will make it right, but its a little frustrating. I've been around at least 6 other M&P that are used for work and none of them have had this issue. My wife's gun has at least 5000 rounds thru it and not a single hiccup. We will see what happens after I get it back. I think I will look into taking an advanced class and maybe a couple of matches to test it out before I change out the extractor.


Semper Fi,

Luis R.

It almost seems like it isn't the extractor per se. It seems like something is "holding back" the cartridge, causing the beak of the extractor to break when it tries to pull out the cartridge. Rough chamber, maybe? Chamber out-of-spec maybe?


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Luis_R. said:

NOPE. Was told that was bad juju for the 1911, and don't do it on any pistol. Always load from a magazine.

Semper Fi,

Luis R.

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Absolutely bad practice to load the chamber from the ejection port. Unlikely that there will be a mishap, but if there is one it is the loader’s finger and thumb that will be damaged in the least case scenario and in the worst case it could be a lot worse if the slide release gives way.

Semper Fi Luis.

Luis_R. said:

Was told that was bad juju for the 1911, and don't do it on any pistol. Always load from a magazine.

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I was at my LGS a while back, and he was showing me his new SIG P229. He was carrying it, so he ejected the chambered round, dropped the magazine, and handed it to me. When I got through looking at it, I handed it back, and he proceeded to load the previously chambered round via the ejection port, slowly closed the slide, and then put the magazine back in the grip. I asked him about doing that, and he said that it wasn't a good idea for pistols with an internal extractor, like a 1911, but wasn't bad occasionally for a pistol with an external extractor.

He said the problem occurred when the slide is slammed closed on a pistol with an internal extractor, and it bumps over an already chambered round. Even if you close the slide slowly, it still isn't a good idea. For pistols with an external extractor, they have room to move laterally, to clear the chambered round, but it still isn't a good idea to let the slide slam closed (as in using the slide release, or sling shot it.) Instead you should ride the slide closed slowly.

I don't know if he's right or not...I've always heard that it was NOT a good idea for any semi-auto. I still always load from the magazine. Also, if for some reason I need to remove the chambered round, I don't put it back in the magazine...I put it in a range ammo box to use there, because of set back concerns. I do check the OAL as best I can, by comparing it to other rounds of the same make and caliber, and if it looks off, I won't reuse it even at the range. I just don't want to take any chances with a carry gun/ammo. Actually, I don't want to take any chances at the range either...so I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Looks like cast metal.

They had some failures early on. This is why Apex came up with the "Failure Resistant" extractor.

I know you have a couple on order, but I have an extractor. I had an issue early on and talked S&W into sending me another extractor. I replaced it and this one has been sitting in a drawer ever since. If you want it, PM me your address and I'll drop it in an envelope.

They're easy to replace. Just don't lose the spring.

chief on one said:

Looks like cast metal.

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Not cast, MIM.

GKC said:

I was at my LGS a while back, and he was showing me his new SIG P229. He was carrying it, so he ejected the chambered round, dropped the magazine, and handed it to me. When I got through looking at it, I handed it back, and he proceeded to load the previously chambered round via the ejection port, slowly closed the slide, and then put the magazine back in the grip. I asked him about doing that, and he said that it wasn't a good idea for pistols with an internal extractor, like a 1911, but wasn't bad occasionally for a pistol with an external extractor.

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All semi-auto guns are designed so the extractor has room to bump over an already chambered round. If they weren't, they wouldn't be very good guns.

You're correct though, it's a bad practice to load a round by any method other than the mag. However, if you're going to be diligent and practice the way you should, you're going to practice Type I, II and III malfunctions. If done properly, a Type III malfunction clearance will have the extractor bumping over an already chambered round. Eventually this will damage your extractor. It took 8,103 rounds before the extractor in my 1911 broke, but it did. I'll be replacing it after the next 7,000 whether it needs it or not.

I believe it is safe to place a round in the chamber and then close the slide in a Beretta 92. I believe they even mention that feature on their website.

kbm6893 said:

I believe it is safe to place a round in the chamber and then close the slide in a Beretta 92. I believe they even mention that feature on their website.

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Yes, it's safe. It's just hard on the extractor.

Rastoff said:

Yes, it's safe. It's just hard on the extractor.

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Yes, and that is why one should not do it. Once the first shot is fired the extractor is as important as the firing pin. A failure to eject can get you killed. Any soldier or marine who carried the early M16 rifle in combat can attest to that. An ejection failure is likely to be partial, leaving the casing partially in the chamber. Then you have to deal with a stovepipe and a partial ejection.

If you are the fastest gun handler on earth you will still lose 5 seconds at least clearing. That is just enough time for a gad guy to shoot you.

Another problem is that a defective ejector is likely to repeat its poor performance. OK, you ge.t pas,t the first failure Ok. What about the second?

I chamber rounds from the magazine and add one to the mag. It is simple and is done while not under fire.

Odd that a M&P extractor would break once, let alone twice in a row in the same gun.

I think in my last M&P armorer recert (5th class) the instructor told us that he'd only been able to hear of a couple of broken extractors reported in M&P pistols, and he's talked to a lot of LE armorers in recent years. (Bear in mind that LAPD has been issuing M&P 9's to cadets for the last 2-3 years, and LASD is not only issuing M&P 9's (and, apparently, a small number of M&P 40's), but they did a LOT of testing before finally deciding to order them. One of their range instructors claimed, as I recall, putting more than 100,000 rounds through the M&P 9 during that time.

The M&P extractors have been revised a couple of times, from what I can remember. There was a revision involving increasing the rearward rake and length of the hook (I was told that was intended to offset increased slide velocity when some high pressure loads were used in at least one of the calibers).

The last time I received a few spare extractors as an armorer - just to round out a parts kit, not because I'd seen any broken ones - the parts list showed a different part number, which included a name as part of the name/number (Phillips? I'd have to go look).

M&P I-beam extractors are pretty robust in dimension, with a thick leading forward shoulder and hook. In my first M&P pistol armorer class ('07) we were told that while dropping a slide over an already chambered round was never a good practice, the engineers had designed the M&P extractor with a thicker leading shoulder, in anticipation of a malfunction or stoppage that might require a LE user to manually run a slide to try and have an extractor remove a "stuck" round or empty case from the chamber. They wanted to minimize the potential for damage to occur to the extractor should that sort of thing happen due to an ammo problem. They still didn't recommend dropping a slide (and its extractor) over the case rim of a round dropped directly into the chamber, but they apparently recognized that such an ammo-related extraction problem might come along and be experienced by a user in the field.

What ammunition were you using when the breakages occurred? All fresh factory (meaning new production), or someone's handloads, remanufactured or foreign-made?

Since this has happened twice, in the same gun, I'd be inclined to wonder whether something about the barrel or the slide's machining might be out-of-spec, putting unintended stress on the extractor. Stranger things have happened.

Please let us know what you hear, as this is very unusual and I'd be interested in learning the outcome. I still help support M&P's as an armorer for the M&P pistol and the Shield.

Rastoff said:

However, if you're going to be diligent and practice the way you should, you're going to practice Type I, II and III malfunctions. If done properly, a Type III malfunction clearance will have the extractor bumping over an already chambered round.

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OK, I'll display my ignorance (which is usually evident pretty quickly): what are the three types of malfunctions? I mean, I know about stove pipes, failures to load, failures to fire, double feeds, etc. I've never known them to be classified into types. But then, I don't even know most, much less all.