It took them long enough but a 10MM M&P is finally here and it's a beauty.


https://www.smith-wesson.com/subcate...M+Announcement

The price ($654 for optics ready) is really a good deal. It’s not a 1006, but it still looks pretty awesome.

I noticed it has the same style trigger as the Shield Plus.

Just when we needed something to breathe some life into bear threads, it arrives!

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Rule of law, not a man.

I predict they will be sought-after for a while...so of course the price gougers will take advantage of people who need one now.
Regardless, it's great news for 10 mm fans. Glad S&W finally wised up.

Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore has them to pre-order at $609, FWIW.

It is too bad it isn't being offered in at least a 5 inch barrel for hunting in my state. That's a big miss in my opinion. Hopefully they come out with one down the road.

Just put in an order with my local dealer for a 4” no safety version as soon as he can get it. I can see them coming out with a longer barreled version eventually but I really don’t see the M&P platform as a hunting pistol

Just got an email Ad today. "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"

I hope those giant sights can be replaced with standard
height sights, and the trigger can be replaced with a standard
M&P 2.0 trigger. Do not like triggers with blades in them.
A 5 inch would be my first choice, but I can accept a 4.6 inch.

It's good to see that Smith & Wesson finally entered the 10mm Auto Pistol market.

I wanted one of these so badly over the past few years, but alas, I grew impatient, gave up hope, and sought an alternative. Earlier this year I finally filled the niche for a powerful semiautomatic pistol with an H&K USP45 Elite. Yeah, it's not a 10mm, but .45 Super is roughly equal in performance to 10mm, and it's a bit more exotic, so it's got that going for it.
So yeah, I'll pass, but it's cool that they finally made one.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I almost went with an XDM Elite 3.8 today and glad I waited. Ill wait a bit for the hands on reviews.

do people who combat wildlife usually use revolvers or something? or some older style metal guns from the 80s?

Guess my Glock 20 will be hitting the used shelf in a couple of years.

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NRA Endowment Member

I added an RIA 1911 10mm to my 1006 last year. It's a superb pistol. With good adjustable sights.
I will get the new 10 but that trigger with the"swinging dingus" HAS TO GO! I reckon if I got the manual safety model I could just take it out.

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S&W Accumulator

I've been waiting for this for some time. I already contacted my FFL today and asked him to get me the 4" w/o TS as soon as possible.

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Dave Frost

My buddy who is a Wildlife Officer on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Northern Montana carries a Glock 20 loaded with 200 grain HSM “Bear Loads”. Lots of grizzlies there. He says if they are on a call involving a bear they don’t get out of the truck without an 870 loaded with slugs.

The Navajo tribal wildlife rangers I worked with didn’t deal with grizzlies in New Mexico or Arizona but they were often called on to deal with livestock-killing black bears. They all had AR pattern rifles loaded with 55 grain FMJ. I asked one if he though it was enough gun and he said it worked great when he shot them in the head.

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Rule of law, not a man.

If it wasn't abundantly clear by the perpetual bear threads seen on forums such as these, what to carry for wilderness defense is a subject of hot debate in which nobody really agrees entirely on what is a proper firearm/cartridge for large predatory animals.

Some argue that a 10mm Semiautomatic Pistol is ideal, others insist that a .44 Magnum Revolver is the bare minimum, some argue that only a 12 Gauge Shotgun loaded with Brenneke Slugs can reliably stop a charging bear, while others insist upon carrying a high powered Magnum Rifle, then there are the staunch advocates of Bear Spray in the mix, followed by those who argue that the best defense against wildlife is to avoid it altogether by staying out of the deep wilderness, and then the jokers who say you should carry a .25 ACP Pocket Pistol and shoot a companion in the knee to make a clean getaway.

Heck, not even experienced guides can agree, as you'll see them advocate carrying all sorts of firearms/cartridges from 9mm Pistols up to Big Bore Magnum Rifles.

Personally, I hold the opinion based on common sense that just about anything can be used for Wilderness Defense seeing as we've all heard the story of Bella Twin killing a Grizzly with a .22 Rifle, but at the same time I advocate carrying the biggest, more powerful firearm that one possibly can, just to be safe.

10mm Auto has been popular in the role of Wilderness Defense because with full-power loads it is a highly capable round which has proven itself in the field, plus it can be had in lightweight polymer framed pistols and the recoil isn't too intense, thus making it a well-rounded option.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

i don't know. i'd still carry the 9mm so i can make numerous follow up shots

This. My XDM 10mm, G21 are range toys. Fun to shoot.

On the street it's G17 or G19.

Typically speaking, you've got time for one, maybe two shots before a charging bear clears the distance between you, so folks generally opt for a more powerful cartridge which will do maximum damage in a single shot.

That being said, if you insist on carrying a 9mm into the Wilderness, then load it with +P FMJ for maximum penetration.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Perhaps the aftermarket will step up. Out of curiosity, do you know if your state would allow hunting with a 5” barrel extending from the slide of an original 4” gun?

So where are all the youtube videos'?

I would imagine as long as the barrel is 5 inches the slide length won’t matter. Depending on the state you might have to have a 5 inch barrel from the end of the chamber. Some states make up stupid rules

What Neal said times two. The guns I see in the link are a bit of a disappointment for me, particularly owing to the blade-style trigger. Maybe other models will eventually come along… I guess I’m in no hurry.

This with 200 grain FMJ will be good for horseback, where you want enough penetration to humanely put down a badly injured horse.

I would like to have one in combat mode. I don't want the optics, exterior safety, or whatever these high sights are. I'm interested but not quite ready to pull the plug.

Not necessarily. Read the "93 cases" of handguns vs bears. Many of those turn into protracted fights with more ammo expended.

I was able to shoot 20 rounds through one today, but had limited time and limited ammo. It shoots very well and what I really liked was it does not launch the brass into space. This is the first time shooting a 10mm that I have been able to easily find all of my brass. I will post up some pictures when I get the chance.

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Plastic has no soul

This is the 4.6 inch model, no safety, optic ready model. I did not have a 45 available to compare it with, but it feels very good in the hand. This was my first time shooting with the new flat trigger. The first group picture was shot at 10 yards slow fire getting used to it. It is different but good.

Second group picture was another 10 rounds rapid fire at 7 yards. I was shooting Freedom Munitions 10mm loads, so really more like +P level 40 caliber rather than full power 10mm. It was very controllable, and doubles and triples were not difficult.

Time and ammo was a factor and I wish there had been more of each. I have an order in for one of my own and hoping delivery will be in a couple of weeks. I guess it will be time to crank up the old 650 and load some rounds up.

edit: I have no idea why the pictures are sideways... sorry.

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Plastic has no soul

Girl who runs our hand gun shop says they don't presently exist with no ETA. Ethang's post gives me hope. Make mine a 4.6" with safety.

I was going to wait for the P320 10mm but it's been vaporware for two years.

I'll have to be convinced, to sell my XDM 10mm and get the Smith.

XDM has a lot of goodies for the 10mm handloader at no extra charge:

1. Standard rifling; good for hardcast bullets (Glock isn't).

2. Mirror polished chamber and barrel, like a 686. Good for hardcast bullets (Glock isn't).

3. Mirror polished feed ramp, good for . . . . .

4. Fully supported chamber, can handle 10mm spec handloads.

You get the idea. I expect the Smith to have standard rifling.

It exists...and is making it's way into the supply line. Should be available to order from most distributors right now, but allotments are low.. ETA should be end of the month or first of December I am being told.

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Plastic has no soul

Sorry but hunters are a niche market in today's world. Less than 15% of gun owners are hunters. Only a small fraction of those use handguns.

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USPSA CRO
Patriot Guard rider

From the images, the M&P looks quite a bit smaller and more slim than the G20 and XDM-10. I'm content with the 10mms I have now, but thus one is starting to pique my interest.

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Thanks for the review. But I've shot some of that Freedom Munitions "10mm" ammo (allegedly ), and wasn't impressed.

I appreciate your review being done from the limited time you had to shoot the gun, and limited to the type of ammo you had on hand, .... but before being declared the New Big Dude on the 10mm block, any sample of these new M&Ps needs to be thoroughly vetted by firing, at a minimum, 500-rds of real 10mm ammo. So, for example, taking the ubiquitous 180gn 10mm FMJ bullet, at or near full-power for that bullet-weight would be in the 1325fps-1375fps range.

10MM Auto 180 Grain FMJ Full Power Ammo 1375 FPS - Fenix Ammunition

As we've seen in the past, any "10mm" pistol can be made to look like a winner shooting the watered-down 40-level junk ammo - the stuff that's "10mm" only on the box-flap. Nooop.

It's only when fed high-performance 10mm ammo (or equivalent handloads) that the Wannabes get separated out from those pistols that have been properly R&D-ed, engineered, and tested long before they hit the shelves of the LGS.

Sig's line of 10mm P220s are an example of this. If you can ignore the two drawbacks of weight and a stingy mag capacity, they are otherwise excellent specimens of the 10mm breed.

On a polymer platform, it's clearly Glock's three 10mm models. S.A.'s 10mm XDs, while garnering mostly positive reviews, are really still too new to draw any long-term conclusions.

That is why I included that the ammo was at best +P 40.

What I am getting from someone in the know is the development of this pistol included 10's of thousands of full power 10mm loads over the last 2+ years, and they have held up well. Most modern 10mm loads are a shadow of what the round was originally.

Me being a man of simple means I don't have the coin to spend on that much ammo. I never said this was the end all be all, New Big Dude of 10mm, just that it shot well and I liked it enough to drop my own money getting one. I too want something that will fire full power loads of old.

Since the CSP I have been patiently waiting for since 2017 appears to be dead in the water, this and my 1006 will have to do.

Your results may vary.

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Plastic has no soul

Or at least what the round was originally marketed as. If you look around for reviews where people actually chronograph the original Norma ammo it consistently comes in about 200 fps short of the impressive numbers printed on the box. A couple of YouTube reviews are at:



This is consistent with my personal experience. I bought a Springfield Omega 10mm pistol in the late 80s and later traded it for a S&W 610 a few years later after the Omega broke. The Norma ammo was noticeably hotter than the PMC ammo that was the only other factory ammo I could find right after the 10mm was introduced. But my remaining Norma ammo felt weak when I compared to Underwood and DoubleTap ammo, all in the same range session. Also, the original Norma ejected from my 610 easily but boutique ammo was very sticky. Unfortunately I didn't chronograph the ammo and shot all the original Norma ammo I had.

It's too bad equipment to measure chamber pressure is so expensive. I find it hard to believe the big manufacturers would load most calibers except 10mm up to the SAAMI specs. It seems more likely that companies like Underwood and Buffalo Bore are loading the cartridge up until it meets the original marketing velocities regardless of the pressure required. But without a way to measure pressure that is just a guess.

The hot ammo serves a purpose and is why most people are attracted to 10mm. And a lot of 10mm pistols can handle it well. What is really needed is a 10mm +P spec for hot ammo so gun makers can design handguns for it.

The current pressure spec for 10mm is 37500, only 7% higher than the 35000 psi spec for 40 S&W. Even with the higher case capacity expecting 10mm to produce 40% to 50% more power with only 7% more pressure is unrealistic. That 37500 limit might have made sense back when SAAMI set it and a lot of hastily converted 1911s like my Springfield Omega were breaking. But it could be higher for modern guns specifically designed for strong 10mm loads.

I told my local dealer to get me a 4" version. When I went in I asked about it and he had no idea about the release. He also wasn't aware of the SA35 either. I should get a prize for filling him in, like being first on the list for one, oh wait I am.

Peak pressure is not equal to power. Checking accurate arms ballistics (SAAMI compliant), the excellent 180 gr. XTP clocks 978 from 40 and 1242 from 10 mm. Kinetic energy of 10 mm is 1.6X the 40.

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To cannon, all men are equal

Something which a lot of folks including 10mm Auto aficionados don't know is that the 10mm Auto cartridge was originally designed by Jeff Cooper to launch a 200gr projectile at 1000fps, which he deemed ideal for police, but Norma decided to advertise it as a hotter load which would do 1200fps.
In hindsight, it would appear that their advertisement was false, and they were in fact loading their ammo to Jeff Coopers specifications all along, seeing as old boxes of their ammo consistently chronograph at (give or take) 1000fps.
This is also why the moniker ".40 Short & Wimpy" has always been ignorant, since .40 S&W only runs a teensy bit lighter than their idol Jeff Cooper's original 10mm Auto load. (180gr @ 1000fps vs 200gr @ 1000fps)

In addition, .40 S&W actually conceptually predates 10mm Auto, since it actually dates back to the 1960s when some guys at Smith & Wesson were collaborating with some of the writers for Guns & Ammo Magazine to make a new cartridge for metallic silhouette shooting under the working title ".40 G&A" but eventually the guys behind the concept were no longer employed by Guns & Ammo, so the name was changed to .40 S&W, but when the concept was presented to the executives, the proposition was rejected because the company was focused on defensive handguns at the time and didn't want to put money/resources into the development of a new competition cartridge. However, the project was revisited in the late eighties and was fully realized as a duty cartridge. So the belief that .40 S&W is a shortened 10mm Auto is false. In fact, the 10mm Auto was actually based on the then shelved concept of the .40 G&A, so if anything, 10mm is more of a .40 Long than .40 S&W is a 10mm Short.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

This and the Springfield High Power are temptations.

As I said, I don’t see this as a hunting gun and don’t believe that was the market they are after. They have the 610 for hunters

LOL! .... Ah yeah, no. ... Just no.

Completely fake reviso-history.

Historical truth about the 10mm can be found in the late Ron Corrillo's master work, 'Heir Apparent,' as regards the history of the 10mm AUTO cartridge and the Bren Ten pistol.

Cover pic of Corrillo's book attached.

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ultimately the 10mm is too inhumane so they adapted it for self defense against large predators

No, my account is historically accurate. Google ".40 G&A" if you don't believe me. Corrillo got it wrong, hence why I said that this is something not even many 10mm aficionados know.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Well, now I'm less enthusiastic. The Smith ad for the M&P 10mm shows 10mm ballastics as a 180 bullet at 1,008 fps. Does that mean no full power 10mm loads? My 40 does better than 180 grains at 1,008 f[s using Longshot or Power Pistol.

Then order one and swap out the sights. Done.

Where is the ad you saw?

It probably means S&W tested with ammo from the many major ammo makers that do not load super hot ammo in 10mm and accurately reported the results. It could also be a self defense load that uses a bullet designed for 40 S&W velocities and would expand so much it doesn't penetrate well if driven harder.

There are reviews of the new pistol on YouTube. If you watch them I will bet they test the gun with the hot ammo.

Springfield did the same thing with the XDM. They did a 10,000 round endurance test on video. But they used Hydra-shok ammo, which is self defense stuff that goes only a few feet faster than .40.

On the other hand, I load my XDM up into the 1250+ range. I haven't fired ten thousand of them, but it works just fine. I'm thinking M&P will too.