AR-10 or .308 Bolt action

Bought by MP-15 last November; love it. Was thinking about moving up to a .308. Have a qualifying problem; so to speak. I am some what limited on how much I can lift and just how much recoil I can handle. Long story short here; (hopefully). After 40 years in public service, I have had 3 cervical disc surgeries due to in the line of duty injuries. I can tolerate the 5.56/.223 very well; not too heavy, well within tolerance recoil. Recently I have wanted to get into more long range shooting, not hunting, but could possibly build up to going on a predator hunt, like hogs or yotes, and was wondering about a bolt action rifle to back up my MP-15. With that said, I was looking at Weatherby thinking .308 may be as good, but I don't ever see myself ranging our over 500 to 700 yards. No range in my area to shoot that far, only would like to keep my distance if I can't hunt and tshtf. I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

I prefer a bolt action rifle.

With a decently designed stock and, if you want, recoil pad I find them far superior to AR platforms for hunting.

I prefer rifles under 7 lbs with a forward mounted low power scope.

You carry your rifle much more than you shoot it while hunting.

Forward mounted scopes are very very quick and I can hit anything I need to at hunting ranges.

Most people can't tell a game animal from their mother in law at 500 yards.

Most people wildly over estimate range: more folks miss high than anything.

A bolt action is as fast as a semiauto, with a little practice.

If you can locate an old Remington 600 or 660, that's a great place to start, if you know a gunsmith who understands the forward mounted scope. A Steyr Scout is pricy, but is all set up and the best such rifle available.

You might want to get Jeff Cooper's book "the art of the rifle"

Just my opinion, of course.

My suggestion for most people, given the circumstances you describe, would be a Browning A-Bolt in .308. With a synthetic stock, it is very light and portable, powerful enough to reach out to 1000 yds, and extremely accurate. In .308 it is effective on hogs.

The caveat for you is that a .308 is going to recoil substantially more than the 5.56 you're used to. The lighter the gun the more it will hammer you when you pull the trigger. Given your disc issues, a muzzle brake might be just the ticket. A brake will soften the recoil so the .308 feels much more comfortable. A strong argument could be made for the M&P 10. It is relatively light, (probably no more than 1-2 lbs more than your M&P 15). It is accurate enough for your purposes, and would be a snap to remove the suppressor and install a brake.

You might want to choose something in between a .223 and .308. A number of years ago I had back surgery and would not be completely healed before hunting season. I wanted something that recoiled little and would be light enough to carry. I settled on a Rock River Arms 6.8 SPC mid-length A4. It weighs about 8 lbs. with scope and sling. The multi-position stock allows me to adjust it for times when I'm wearing a either a tee shirt or down vest, depending on weather.

The recoil is about twice that of a .223 and half that of a .308. It's easily a 200-250 yard deer or pig gun. Targets are good for as far away as you want to shoot them.

You can get away with a .223 if you want to shoot targets at long distance but are willing to restrict your hunting to 100 yards. I'm not in favor of using that cartridge for deer and hogs, but it's very popular in some parts of the country. You just need to be choosy as far as ammunition is concerned. I have shot enough high power competition with an AR15 to know that most box stock AR's will out shoot your average bolt gun. If you have someone build an upper for you, it can be as light or heavy as you want. The advantage is it will be inexpensive if you use your M&P lower.

I have a Browning X-bolt in .300 WSM, a .308 savage, and the M&P-10. As far as carrying a lightweight gun, the X-bolt is a featherweight on my shoulder and easy to carry all day as if it is not there. Obviously however, it kicks like a mule.

The .308 Savage is an older octagonal barrel rifle. It is not near as light as the Browning, and for a .308 bolt action does not seem to kick that bad- probably due to the receiver and barrel weight.

By comparison, the M&P10 seems to have very little recoil. Yes it is a heavier gun, but it is the bolt carrier group and recoil spring that take up a lot of the felt recoil of the .308 round.

If you are more concerned about recoil and will primarily be shooting from a rest, then I think the M&P is the way to go.

FWIW, a friend of mine has built up a very capable .243 for long range work, if you are not heartset on the .308.

Nate

Henry, I will go along with the rest of the comments, all being really valid and sound.
I have a Howa 243, and it's a pussycat to shoot. And, it's compact and light enough to be a spectacular antelope and deer rifle.
As to the 308, it will hold its' own just fine down to 700yards, and as to the recoil, might I make a suggestion, from my recent experience with my son:
Last year, my son wanted to buy his 'own' first rifle. I am very sold on 30-06, and he agreed this was his first choice, with the anemic 300WinMag as his second choice..... Visions of blurred vision danced in my head, and brought back memories of my Weatherby 300 magnum, which was a spectacular rifle, but I traded it out because of the recoil. It was just a stout, sharp hitting rifle, and not fun to shoot.
So last year was the great gun shortage, and what my son settled on was a Remington ADL in 300Winmag, with a synthetic stock. We looked for a 30-06, but they were nowhere to be found.
I warned him "This thing might be a real handful to shoot."

Our first trip out, we paired it with my Ruger 77, 7mm Mag. and my model 700, 30-06. An older version of basically the same rifle as my son, minus a half a soda can of powder in each shell.

And with the first BAM! from the rifle, he looked over at me, and grinned. A HUGE grin. "Your turn, old fart....."
BAM. (Note; not BAM! but rather- BAM. ) The stock has some recoil absorbing features, and a decent factory pad. And I swear, the felt recoil was close to equal to my 30-06, and LESS than my 7mm mag by a good margin. The sharpness of the hit was just so much smoother than I could have ever imagined. Yes, it hits with authority. But not so much as to make you want to leave it in the case.

So, my point is; you may find a recoil deadening stock for the 308 which would make the rifle a very friendly partner to spend time on the bench with. The model 700 ADL is a standard rifle; no bull barrel, not real heavy at all. About 7.5lb for a 300WinMag. Price?? Even here in Peoples Republic of Kalistania, the cost was about $500, scope included. A decent 3x9 scope, nothing special, but was good to 250yds. has been replaced to compliment the rifles' ability to hunt well out to 500 yards or so.

One good thing about bolt guns in either .308 or 30-06 is the fact you can load um light or heavy. The auto is too finiky unless you do a lot of work to refine it. And for the price difference you could get a nice scope on the bolt gun if you want to take it out to 3-500.

Weight and recoil is allways a trade. May consider a good muzz brake install, depending?

Yotes are NBD, but there is a difference in piggies and hawgs!

Rpg said:

Forward mounted scopes are very very quick

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For some people, not everyone. I find a standard eye relief scope to be much quicker to acquire a target with and far easier to use

A bolt action is as fast as a semiauto, with a little practice

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A faster rate of aimed fire than a bolt action was a solid selling point for the Garand. It even beat out the SMLE. Modern self loading rifles with their better ergonomics are faster still.

Henry1954, you can tune an M&P-10 to have a softer recoil impulse than a bolt action rifle of the same weight firing the same bullet at the same velocity. Recoil energy will not be less, but it can be softer

Lots of good recommendations above. There is always a trade off when it comes to gun weight VS recoil. The Smith AR-10 is probably a good choice, as it weighs less than most, and can be easily outfitted with a good brake to reduce recoil.

A lightweight bolt action could also be good if you reload, and are willing to use reduced loads and have a brake installed.

A good brake really makes a difference. I have a CETME .308, with a brake, that kicks no more than a M4 5.56 carbine. My K&K 91 (same basic gun as the CETME) with just a flash hider kicks noticeably more than the CETME.

Larry

I'd say to try and find a 300 Blackout upper that will fit the 15, uses the same magazines and bolt as the 5.56 from what I've heard(not sure about ammo availability though). Heck Smith even makes a M&P 15-300, you could always give them a call and see about ordering an upper.

Product: Model M&P15 - 300 Whisper®

Good luck.

You could always go with a Mossberg MVP in .308. It's a bolt gun that uses the same magazine as the M&P10. That way if you decide to get one, you already have the same magazine(s). In my experience, the recoil on the M&P10 is not bad and it isn't that much heavier than a M&P15. In my humble opinion, you can't go wrong either way.

Thanks everyone; you guys are the best! I appreciate the suggestions, there is a lot to consider. Not owning a bolt, that's the way I'm leaning right now; would definitely add a muzzle brake regardless of the caliber. I believe I would be able to shoot longer and more frequently with less jolt, and since it is possible to mitigate the recoil it makes sense for me to do so. Again, thanks I'll post up with what I get.

I don't know your pain limit nor your budget. But I think there are plenty of options available to you.

If you really want to shoot long range, my favorite is the 7.62x51. Or the .338 Lapua. But I doubt you will like the recoil of those heavy loads.

Firearms wise, just have a look at the Mossberg ATR for instance. It's an entry level rifle with synthetic stock, available in several different calibers (.243, .270, 7mm, .308, .30-06, etc) and 3-9X40mm scope.

Next would be the Remington 770 or 783. Also available in several different calibers and w/ or w/o scope.

If you like wood you can look into the Remington 700 and model 7.

In case you like top notch look into Colt M2012. To my knowledge they have teamed up with Cooper firearms.

And in case you want a real long range hitting machine get the Remington M24

henry1954 said:

Thanks everyone; you guys are the best! I appreciate the suggestions, there is a lot to consider. Not owning a bolt, that's the way I'm leaning right now; would definitely add a muzzle brake regardless of the caliber. I believe I would be able to shoot longer and more frequently with less jolt, and since it is possible to mitigate the recoil it makes sense for me to do so. Again, thanks I'll post up with what I get.

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Henry, just one more thing to think about. Numerous people (myself included) have mentioned a muzzle brake. They work well and would suit your particular situation nicely. There is one draw back to a muzzle brake that you should consider. They are LOUD. That shouldn't matter if you are wearing proper hearing protection, but a lot of shooters don't use sufficient ear protection when hunting. I guess they think its more important to hear subtle noises on the hunt.
Just a heads up for you.

Reach out and 'touch' something?

henry1954 said:

Thanks everyone; you guys are the best! I appreciate the suggestions, there is a lot to consider. Not owning a bolt, that's the way I'm leaning right now; would definitely add a muzzle brake regardless of the caliber. I believe I would be able to shoot longer and more frequently with less jolt, and since it is possible to mitigate the recoil it makes sense for me to do so. Again, thanks I'll post up with what I get.

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Have you considered a bolt-action 6BR built around a 105gr VLD? Light recoil, long range and lethal.. 6mmBR Cartridge Guide

I'd like to pu in my 2-cents if I may...I am in the process of building an m4 or an XM177-clone on an M&P-15 lower, and laready have my awsome M&P-10 for the big bore stuff...I grew up on the 700 BDL/ADL
platform and got to do some tack-driving in the USMC on the M40 (which is a heavily modified 700) and enjoyed the bolts accuracy alot..however-the recoil on my M&p-10 is ALOT less than any bolt-gun I have ever used, and the accuracy is more than "ok" with the rifle in stock form. If I was to attempt serious long-distance stuff with the'10 I would (1)-free float the barrel and maybe even (2) go to a 20'-22' or longer bull barrel with the free-float and be done. I believe the '10
would support long distance stuff very well with that wonderful device called the buffer/spring assembly to do the "heavy lifting" on the recoil for you. a PRS stock in addition to the above mods would help with comfort, although the trade-off (especially with the longer "bull" barrel is gonna be some serious weight gain...again, just my 2-cents...I think i will leave mine stock and invest in some optics and be perfectly happy out to 300-600m and have a ball, all while keeping it under 8-10 lb. and keeping the costs in line. Semper Fidelis!!!