Ok all, I am a fairly new owner of my first AR 15 and I have been doing a pretty good job so far of defending their existence with friends, coworkers and on social media. However in the last couple days I have been faced with the questions and comments on how easy it is to convert an AR 15 into a fully automatic weapon. Of course I have said that fully auto is illegal and not as easy to convert as they have heard. Now they are using the slidefire stock example of turning these into virtually automatic weapons. I need some advice and examples of how to argue this point. Do these things really work? Can they be used accuratly the same as a full auto can be? I have seen video of them in use but they just seem like a novelty kind of thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have one on my beater AK. They work well enough that they will likely be the target of future legislation. In fact, the current Feinstein Bill would nab it. As far as accurate fire, probably not as accurate as a FA gun, but with practice in the technique of using to, you can hit with it.

But you can get the same effect with a thick rubber band and some practice.

It is just a way to get close to full auto fire with out spending big bucks.
Slide fire is the best bump fire device as far as accuracy goes...having said that it is not the same as having a proper select fire firearm. I have not shot mine enough to be very good. I would guess if you put enough rounds through it you could train yourself to be pretty good. I am sure you will get better answers from others here that shoot one more often.
Conversion: yes and no..several parts to consider and changes were made to newer lowers so that just a parts swap would not enable the making of a machine gun. If you know what to do and have money to throw at it...sure it can be done. Great way to go to jail.

True full-auto guns are not illegal (at least per the Federal government. States have their own laws that may preempt Federal law). Citizens may own a transferable full auto on a BATFE Form 4 after paying a $200 excise tax and passing a background check, complete with fingerprinting. Statistically, such legal, civilian owned guns in the hands of their owners have almost never been used in crimes. In fact, the only case ever cited since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was committed by a police officer who used his legally owned SMG to rob a drug dealer. There may have been other cases, but nobody seems to be able to document one.

Simply put they have not ever been a threat to anyone.

Since GCA '68 and later the May 1986 legislation no further full auto guns may be imported or manufactured (i.e.; legally converted) for civilian use. So the supply is static and the prices are beyond the reach of anyone but the rich cronies of the gun-control elite. This legislation was passed only because some politicians found it to be any easy mark to hit, and people were scared of them.

You are correct in referring to the Slide Fire and other bumpfire toys as "virtual" full auto. And yes, I'll bet they get pushed into the NFA corner soon, especially after some psycho looking for attention commits an offense with one. it will only take one such criminal and one such offense to cause this.

They are toys, and are meant only to convert money into noise. We should be pretty safe from the effect of screwball bump fire legislation until they outlaw rubber bands.

Spend the $350 bucks you would dump on a bump fire stock on ammo and then practice bump fire until you learn it.

As far as arguments go in favor of them being legal, just show people the various You Tube videos on the subject until it sinks in that you don't even really need them. They just help somebody to learn to bump fire sooner and with better accuracy.

I personally have no use for a slide fire stock but am not against anyone that legally can own a gun owning one. Thats their right. In order to convert semi to full auto, requires very exacting machine work plus a person would have to swap out 80% if the internal parts. I feel bad that the media has convinced the people that arent firearm savvy that you could do it with a paperclip. (joke), I am glad that I dont deal with those people in my world!

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Grover Oathkeeper

i love my slide Fire.... just stupid fun...

that said... i dont use it on my Sport mainly becouse I am doing more long Distance shooting... It is on my Ar15-22 and is just SOOOOOO much fun dumping 25rds in like 4seconds... and is CHEAP on a .22


If you need to TRY and justify it to someone, dont bother, they dont understand and never will.... Its an optional part to a specific Hobby, that some people will never understand

My $.02 anyways


Stav

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--Stav--

Thanks for the replies, but I'm not trying to justify them being legal, I was more looking for an arguement to use as to why they are not the threat some of the gun control nuts think they are. Sounds like maybe they can be the threat these people are saying they are. Sorry if I mis stated my intentions and for my lack of knowledge on this type of item.

IIRC the ATF did ban Rubber Bands as an aid to bump firing. Personally the only explanation that I can think of as to why the Slide Fire stocks weren't banned is because the ATF wanted to set them up as a "trap". Now the Anti's have the perfect accessory to demonstrate how easy it is to convert an AR or AK to full auto for rather low cost. Basically, those who like Black Rifles have fallen into this trap hook, line, and sinker.

BTW, some may take exception to the above. I don't care. The simple fact is that someone with a bit of practice can swap out the stock on an AR-15 in 10 minutes or a lot less and have what appears to be a fully automatic machine rifle. You can argue that the firing mechanism is still semi auto until you are blue in the face, that doesn't change the simple fact that anyone watching the ABC Evening News with Diane Sawyer will see what appears to be a full auto AR-15.

Actually they are less accurate than a true select fire do to the various movements required to facilitate the bumb fire of the gun. You are basicly holding the gun in a fairly loose manner and the recoil causes the reset and firing of the next round. A true select fire has potential to be much more accurate. A machine gun is mostly used as fire suppression to facilitate the movement of personal to a better position to kill the other guy or in close quarters combat to get more bullets on target to remove the threat in a rapid manner. A three round burst or semi auto is a much better choice for the average altercation. Something like 20,000 rounds were expended for each confirmed kill in Vietnam. Not very accurate.