Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot- MD-ADS

How did you get those pics or are they just off the web?

The reason I ask has to do with camera position. Because of the refraction associated with any lens, a tiny shift in camera position could create the roof line differences you're seeing in those pics.
 
Marshall acknowledges the image shift. It's a shrinking image magnification with the glass. I doubt many folks notice. Heck, half or more of the guys I see at the Club use red dots one eye closed anyway.

My Burris FastFire (another supposedly good mid-priced red dot) does the same thing but in reverse, and even worse. I hate it. Funny thing, I ranted about it in a thread where others were giving it glowing reviews. Others hadn't noticed. :rolleyes:

I think they all have some optical image difference, but my Aimpoint and old PAs and decades old Tasco red dots have none perceivable to me. I was thinking about a Holosun, but after those images and reading Marshall acknowledge it, it's not an option for me.
 
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I appreciate your write up on this optic, and please update as you see fit. I became an AR owner last year, and have been using it with a LMT carry handle. Although I do enjoy shooting my M&P with the irons, I have been thinking about getting a red dot to help my 56 year old eyes. I only use my AR for fun, and my hunting guns get the good glass, so this PA red dot seems like a good fit. Thanks again for the write up.
 
I've found that taking pictures of optics can be quite challenging. Because the red dot is designed to simulate a dot projected on the target, it's impossible to have the optic housing in focus and the red dot in focus. Because of this, the pictures taken above have to be considered with that in mind.

Let's look at them again:
Holosun%20Distortion_zpsqqhrmlrz.jpg


Aimpoint%20T-1%20distortion_zpshgr6nnsz.jpg


I've added arrows to indicate where the actual red dot is. Notice that the Aimpoint dot is almost off the optic low/left. The Holosun seems to be closer to the middle. I'm not sure about the Holosun though, that could be a reflection rather than a distorted red dot.

Only one conclusion can be drawn from what I'm showing; the pictures were not taken at the same angle with respect to the optic. Because of refraction, this is important to any refraction error noted (which is what we're talking about when looking at the broken roof line).

This kind of picture is quite difficult to set up. It's not enough to just see the roof line the same, the angle of the optic must be the same as well. This means that the photographer must take some time to position each optic (or rifle if it's mounted) not just in the same position, but the same attitude as well.

I will try to replicate a pic like these, using the MD-ADS, soon.
 
Rastoff said:
I just looked and found this:
HS403G-3T.jpg


This is the Holosun version of the same thing. Primary Arms has it listed on their site for $199. It has exactly the same specs as the Primary Arms version, but with different adjustment caps. I certainly wouldn't pay an extra $30 just for different caps.

None of this surprises me.
Click to expand...

The Holosun has a few differences - battery location, auto-off, and also the emitter is at the 6 o'oclock position instead of 4:30 or so... PA wanted side mounted battery for easier changing, 4:30 emitter b/c the 6pm one interferred with some c/w setups, and they just plain didn't want the auto-off I read - so they asked Holosun to make these changes for their branded version.

I'm torn... just built a new lightweight shorty BCM with Keymod on my ambi lower, and was thinking about trying the new T-2. Ya'll probably remember I had the T-1 on my S&W/Troy build - wound up selling it b/c I though I was going to go with something etched due to my astigmatism, ie ACOG or Leupold Prismatic - but on this build I want to stay with a very light optic, so back to a red dot lol. I have the earlier model PA on my 15-22, and pretty much hate it, so it's real hard for me to try PA again on this one. I don't "need" a T1/T2/H1, but need and want don't always line up lol...

I suspect by Monday I will have ordered one of the three, though... The BCM/KMR build is pretty naked with no optic yet :eek: Probably an Aimpoint combo from Larue to be honest. Have read several reports on the PA Advances of issues with buttons and w/e adjustments not working at all...

Not really ready for the "official" pics thread yet, probably going to grab a black Mod2 and lighter buttstock...MF maybe - but anyway...

 
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Well, went and looked at the H1/T1/T2, same with all.. astigmatism blows lol. I mean it's usable, but I decided to go ahead and get the ACOG. Doesn't matter if I'm wearing glasses or contacts, it's crystal clear and chevron and marks are sharp. Still may look at the Leupold prismatic too, but not to many of those floating around...

 
Rugged?

Can anyone comment on the longevity of the Primary Arms offerings as regards holding up to the recoil of medium-powered rifles? I was thinking of getting one of the Primary Arms to go on my AK until such time as I can afford an AimPoint Micro, then transfer it over to rimfire duty. In the interim, I would like to be confident that utilizing it on a 7.62X39 won't turn it into a pile of parts (to exaggerate slightly).
 
Well, they put these through a pretty good torture test. Just look at the videos on the site.

Mine has moved over to a Mossberg 930SPX shotgun. I'm gonna blast away with that for a while. I don't know if it has more recoil than a 7.62x39, but it has more than my AR.
 
Ill await your results. I should be getting my tavor in and i need a sight for it
 
Nope, don't like it on the shotgun so, off it comes. It held up fine, I just don't like the way it works with a shotgun. Blocks too much of the target. The circle around the center blocks any kind of target acquisition. Like the ghost ring much better.
 
I agree on the astigmatism not working well with red dots. Looking/drooling at a store, the EOtech had the same issue, but the ACOG didn't. Wish I could justify the cost.
 
Parallax issues here too

i bought 2 Primary Arms MD-ADS as soon as they came out. One for my son & one for my "truck gun". The very first thing I noticed was the parallax shift even out at 100 yards. One of the two I bought was much worse than the other (I could compare them side-by-side on the bench along with a couple different Aimpoints).
I called PA and was told "that's normal for a red dot". After mentioning that I saw no such issue in my Aimpoint, the rep explained that it was there and I just didn't notice it (??!!!??). Then he went in to explain the merits of a consistent cheek weld (grrr!!). In spite of standing his ground on nothing being wrong with the optic, he offered to exchange it - which I did. The one I got back was - well - "better" - but definitely NOT parallax-free.

I still have both PAs some 10 months later and I may even buy another someday. Considering the intent of the rifles they are on, I can live with the parallax issue (I do practice a consistent cheek weld) and enjoy the cost savings. And I appreciate the no-questions-asked customer service (in spite of the pointless argument - everyone has a bad day now and then).

If my life depended on the weapon, I would not personally select this optic. Having said that, it appears to be one of the better bargain models. About the only choice for the battery life. In fact, having grown accustomed to leaving my dots on all the time it was a natural choice for me and the main reason I gave it a try in the first place.

Bottom line: there IS a quality difference between this optic and any given Aimpoint and you WILL notice that difference. However, that difference does not always justify paying 3-4 times more. Nothing wrong with this optic - I'll keep mine - but if you pay a LOT more, you will get a LITTLE more quality. You have to decide it that's worth it for your situation.
 
I'd like to see someone besides me post of vid of parallax, specifically you guys complaining that your 1x red dot optics have a lot or too much parallax. I'd like to see what you guys are saying is too much.

Here is the cheapest red dot I own, a Tasco.
Pushing the dot to the edges of the optic and still it barely budges.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUoszCis3rA[/ame]
 
Here's an update on this optic:

PA claims a battery life of "up to" 50,000 hours. Hmmm, maybe not.

I started this thread on 7 Feb, the day after I got the optic. I put the date I installed the battery, 6 Feb 2015, on the sight. Yesterday I picked up the sight to show a friend, lo and behold the sight is dead.:eek: I took a battery out of a different optic, installed in the this one and it worked. So, I'm sure the battery just died. I'm very disappointed that it lasted less than 6 months when it should last at least 5 years.

Now, the battery in it was the one it came with from Primary Arms. Maybe it was worn out when I got it? I don't know. I will send a note to Primary Arms about it and install a new battery. Time will tell if it works. At the moment, I'm very disappointed. Any sight that will be used for serious defense cannot have the battery die this quickly.
 
What brand was the battery that came with it? One of those generic Chinese ones or a recognizable brand?

I'm not totally sold on the PA made in China offerings. Made in the same factory as the cheaper clones, I suspect the price difference is a small part additional QA and a large part markup since the anchor point is the price of a real Aimpoint. Like other product sellers, they figured out average rates of fail units as they buy them by the shipping container full, and you're just covered because you paid the 4-5x markup. They could replace your unit many times over and still turn a profit.

If I had money to burn I'd buy an ebay Aimpoint clone and a PA version to disassemble and actually see what the internal differences are. Red dots are relatively simple, there are only so many ways you can slap together a battery, a rheostat, and an emitter that you'd have to intentionally try to make one that doesn't work.
 
Rastoff, thanks for the update. The battery life is really the only question that has not been answered about this optic. Hopefully the answer is put in a quality battery and you will get the life as expected.
 
McE said:
What brand was the battery that came with it?
Click to expand...
The name on the battery is maxell. So, a decent enough name I guess.

I sent an email to PA yesterday and they responded today. They did mention that it could be an issue with the battery. I liked the one comment, "What do you want us to do to make it right?" I told them that I didn't want anything at the moment. I want to try a new battery first. Alas, it will take a while to test it. :cool:
 
You an always extrapolate with a multimeter, measure amperage draw and compare to battery mAh. I doubt PA sat around waiting for one to die to get their hour rating (hence the "up to" terminology, just theoretical)
 
That's not a bad idea McE. However, I've done some testing with batteries and your suggestion really is a wag. PA probably didn't even do that. They probably calculated the current draw based on the circuit design and matched that up with the mAh of the battery.

The issue with battery drain extrapolation is that batteries don't dissipate in a linear fashion. Also, each type of battery has a different dissipation curve. In any kind of measurement, extrapolation is never a good idea. The further away from an actual measurement point you get, the worse the prediction becomes.

Most regular alkaline batteries will maintain a decent voltage right up until about 20% before failure. Then they will drop off dramatically.

Meh, nothing like a real world test. I compressed a spring for a year to prove that springs really do compress. This is no big deal. I have the optic. I'm going to leave it on. We'll see how it is as time goes by. If I remember, I'll post a blurb every month or so.

The new battery is in. It's an Energizer. Time will tell. If it lasts a year, I'll call it a success.
 
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