I am not sure if what I am looking for even exists, but I am looking for a red dot sight that cannot get knocked out of zero. It is not like I am going to be throwing my rifle around, but I always have to wonder if my scope on my hunting rifle gets knocked a little off of zero when the gun gets bumped, or God forbid the scope does.

Is there such thing as a red dot (one that would go well on an AR15) that does cannot get knocked out of zero?

I think what I am looking for is a sight that is adjusted with the housing, not the actual dot being adjusted, if that makes sense...

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S&W M&P 15 Sport II

A red dot sight that is guaranteed to not loose zero does not exist, but some come pretty close. You are going to be looking at high end optics though, such as Aimpoint or Trijicon.

How bad of a hit does it take for a red dot to actually be knocked out of zero?

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S&W M&P 15 Sport II

I have a very nice red dot on my AR-556 that hasn't been knocked off of zero.

You're looking at Aimpoint or Trijicon. There are others but those are even more expensive.

A good basic Aimpoint is around $450. If you want smaller and lighter the micros are around $700.

Check YouTube for videos where they show damaged (drops, fire, shrapnel, bullets) aimpoints that still work even after all that

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There is no answer for this question. I've seen inexpensive red dots fail from something as simple as falling off the bench at the range, and others survive being bounced off a four wheeler.

Kinda like a boxer... he may be able to take many hits, but then there is that one blow that lands just right and knocks him out cold.

No optic, regardless of how much you spend, will guarantee what you seek. I will say, however, high end brands such as aimpoint and trijicon will perform better than any other out there. There is a reason these are used by the military. Depending on your budget I'd recommend the aimpoint aco or pro or trijicon mro. These are all ~$400 red dots that will get you damn good reliability from the start.

As others have said it is almost impossible to obtain 100% what you are asking for but brands like Aimpoint & Trijicon are a good place to start.

You can get an Aimpoint as low as $300 for a ACO or a $400 for an Aimpioint Pro. The Trijcons MRO starts around $400.

One thing I would add is your sight will only be as good as the mount you use. Do not cheap out on the mount if you are looking at a quality sight.

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Use should dictate gear!

The Sun failing to rise tomorrow and this optic failing to hold zero are about on par. Well... maybe give a slight edge to the Sun.

Seriously though... if you want a red dot to depend on with your life... Aimpoint.

Aimpoint / LaRue mount.

I just watched a YT video last night of a guy beating on a red dot sight with a filled water bottle. These weren't light taps either. I cringed as he hit it on both sides and top and then proceeded to fire and hit a target. (I think it was 100 yds.) The price of the sight was about $20 so high dollar branded sights don't mean squat as far as I'm concerned. He also did a water test by dunking the sight into a bowl of water. The only thing that leaked was an outside filter lens, not the optics itself.

I just bought a $15 red dot sight for the M1 Carbine to use mostly at night. It has both a red and green light, 5 light level points and 4 reticule images. On top of all that, it has a windage and elevation locking screw that's supposed to lock the adjustments after they're made. The mount for the M1 to Picatinny was another $14 so I'm into the sight change-over for less than $30 including shipping. I haven't taken it to the range yet but whatever the outcome, I figure I'm buck$ ahead. My dry-fire time sure has been fun.

And my $23 tac light and barrel mount should be in this week.

Just of the fact that the sight is really small and slimline, I'll say my new Trijicon RMR would be really hard to knock out of zero.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

Actually it means quite a lot. A plastic water bottle is one thing but when Aimpoints take bullets, shrapnel, bomb blasts, dropped, broken glass, burned in fire and overall serious use and still function....that means a lot

Gun Talk TV - Ruggedness & Durability of Aimpoint Red Dot Sights - YouTube

Aimpoint Micro T-1 Durability Testing and Abuse - YouTube

Kinda cheesy but bashed with a hammer and a baseball bat....still works.

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I use a Millet Red Dot on my "K" frame. I know its only a pistol but I never had to re-zero it. It was recommended by a few of the guys at the rifle range that are using them on ARs. I purchased it from Optics Planet.

Ok, I am curious. What $15 sight did you buy? Link?

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S&W M&P 15 Sport II

If you are on a budget I would consider a Vortex Sparc II. It almost survived this very strenuous torture test.

Vortex SPARC II: The Dot That Would Not Die | RECOIL

With all gear it really depends on how you are using it and what role it is trying to fill. For a duty gun my starting point is the Aimpoint Pro but I know that for many the price of admission it too high so I still recommend Vortex with some reservations.

If this is a range toy and you are not betting your life on it I would go as low as the Primary Arms Micro dot. Mine have always held zero when placed on a good mount.

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Use should dictate gear!

There's always the EOTech red dots which have a hard shell surrounding the sight body. Designed for and used in Iraq and Afghanistan by our troops. I have not talked to anyone about how they held up.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

Another thing to think about is battery life. Even if the less expensive dot is able to hold up to abuse, you will still be in trouble if you depend on the rifle and the red dot isn't glowing because the battery is dead.

For a rifle that you are going to depend on, you want one that has a battery that lasts years, not days.

This was a test of an M4, but the M4 had an Aimpoint T-1 mounted. The test speaks volumes as to the durability of the Aimpoint.

Tac TV Season 1, E1: Daniel Defense M4 Torture Test - YouTube

Don't buy Eotechs. They knowingly sent defective equipment to our troops.

EOTech Breaks Silence over Defective Sights | Military.com

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Use should dictate gear!

The Vortex Sparc 2 is a very nice optic for the money. It's roughly $200, comes with multiple bases for different height mounting options and has one of the best warranties out there. The only negative, if you consider it a negative, would be the battery life which is listed as 300-5000 hrs depending on the brightness setting with one cr2032 battery.

Good luck in trusting your life to this set-up.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

I have a 9 pound hammer that says no red dot will always hold zero. Some absolutely do very well though. They have been mentioned several times. Lesser sights have lesser quality but the price is not always a perfect gauge of how good something is. Look for torture tests of any sight you are interested in. Those generally tell the story. There's a reason people want Aimpoint sights. They take a lot of abuse (based on what I've seen and heard - I don't have one). I don't figure my Sport is going to see a whole lot of rough treatment but I could be wrong of course. In that case the iron sights should likely still be zeroed.

If it's really important to you get an Aimpoint. If you want one that is likely to stay put most of the time but costs half the price of an Aimpoint you might do what I did and get a Vortex Strikeforce II. But my choice has a lot to do with my expected use for my rifle. If I was training with a militia or whatever I'd want an Aimpoint. And I may end up with one yet. I bought based on my birthday budget. I can sell what I have and upgrade or just keep what I have for another rifle.

I've got a car that says otherwise

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Aimpoint T1. Period

Yeah, you won't find a manufacturer who makes this statement in their literature, but they exist.

As has been said, Aimpoint makes an amazingly tough optic. But they're made in Sweden. I prefer the Trijicon RMR or TMO. They're made in the US and are the toughest sights I've ever seen.

So for me, it's Trijicon. US made and tougher than nails. They're also a little less expensive than the Aimpoint sights.

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Freedom isn't free.

Tactical Holographic Reflex Red Green Dot Sight 4 Type Reticle for 20mm Rails | eBay

Shipping was quick too.

Don't have to. It's for my coyote, hog and snake shooter. Besides, it probably has the same Chinese electronics that yours does.

We have a saying down here in Texas for the wannabees; "All hat and no horse". If your life revolves around a $700 add on electronic sight, you better lay down your rifle and surrender.

If you believe the two uptics are the same I have a bridge in NY to sell you. If only there was some way to let the military know there's a better option for $15

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Actually it's not. Aim points are Swedish. Trijicon is American. Neither uses Chinese parts

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Unless it's a T2... LOL

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Use should dictate gear!

Aimpoint would be the only red dot sight I would absolutely trust my life with other than Trijicon. There's still decent "budget sights out there for 250bucks


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Love the compM2 I've had forever and the T1 got on a good deal. Unless your going into battle Aimpoints aren't really necessary. Gonna try a Holosun next.



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Depends on the optic and quality control.

Something like the $15 optic linked earlier has a higher likelihood of failing during simple range use or incidental bumps.
Here the entire lens falls out under the stress of recoil from a .22LR 15-22.

Shooting the Tec-9, M&P15-22, and 12 Gauge - YouTube

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There are so many red dot sights it can be dizzying trying to figure out what is worthy of purchase.

On the budget side of the equation, I think folks would do well to narrow the search for a range worthy reliable red dot.

Bushnell TRS-25 - under $100
Primary Arms Micro and AMD Under $100 - $200
Vortex Sparc - $200

[quote=Arik;139352880]Actually it's not. Aim points are Swedish. Trijicon is American. Neither uses Chinese parts/QUOTE]

Trijicon is an American company just like Chevrolet. That doesn't mean all the parts are.

Here's a statement directly from the Trijicon website:
The keyword is "Purchased". That may have nothing to do with where they were made. The supply chain for electronic components is very narrow. Most come from China, South Korea or Taiwan. Even large Japanese companies like Sony and Toshiba buy their electronic components from there. The Czech Republic isn't well known for electronics. They probably supplied the machined parts.

[quote=Tinhack;139352932]Nice cherry picking. You selected their lower priced products. You forgot that all the stuff that's actually used and relied on in extreme conditions is in fact....

"The vast majority of Trijicon products, including all ACOG®, RMR®, Reflex, MRO®, Night Sights, SRS®, VCOG®, TARS®, CCAS® and Archery Sights are designed, engineered, machined and assembled at our facility in Wixom, Michigan and are therefore 100% Made in the USA"

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That's my baby. When it fails (if it ever does) in my range use, I'll get another one. (My targets don't shoot back and my service days are over so not a life threatening issue for me.)

This is a red herring. You are picking their lowest price products and then are speculating what parts and the origin of those parts in a poor attempt to prove your point. You have no evidence for your statements that Trijicon is using parts from China beyond your unverified speculation.

Nothing you have posted shows that any part of Trijicon Optics come from China. Even with parts from The Czech Republic and Japan they are still well made with a high amount of QC which keeps their out of the box quality and long term durability high.

If you do not believe they are worth the money I can understand that but lets try to be intellectually honest in the discussion of the merits of different products.

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Use should dictate gear!

That makes sense. On purely range toys I use Primary Arms cheapest optic which I believe I paid $69 for with the mount. If it fails at the range I simply take it off and start shooting irons or pick up a different rifle to "play" with.

If however you use your rifle in a defense roll I believe you will be better served by a higher quality optic. That does not mean you have to spend $700+ but more than $15 or even $69 might be prudent.

Personally this is my defense gun. I run T-2 on a LaRue mount which I picked up LNIB for $600. I run Aero or Magpul Pro BUIS on the gun. I am comfortable with the knowledge it has a high probability that it will work if and when I need it.

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Use should dictate gear!

Fully agree, I buy all Trijicon stuff now, I love my RMR and if you shop hard enough you can find great prices.

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Still carrying my S&W 642

The saying is "All hat and no cattle"....

Anyway, you said your rifle is for coyote, snakes and hogs. I notice that you have a shield icon though. Would your department authorize that $15 optic for use on patrol rifles? I haven't seen one yet that would.

In fairness, my hog and coyote gun sports a Millet red dot that I got on sale for under $100 at Academy. Not a high end optic by any means, but it is on a rifle that is for sport and pleasure. The OP is asking about rugged optics, so I would assume that his use is different.

As much as I appreciate the quality of the top name red dot sights I don't think it's absolutely necessary to have one on a gun you will use for HD. If your rifle spends 99.9% of it's time sitting in the corner waiting for that "what if" time to happen the chances are a medium quality sight will be enough. i'm not talking some $15 kid's toy. A lithium battery has a shelf life of right at 10 years. If you put in a new battery every 5 years you should be covered on having power. If the rifle isn't placed in a high traffic area where it gets kicked over then chances are it will still be zeroed "if" you bought a decent sight to start with. It doesn't absolutely need to be an Aimpoint or Trijicon. It IS better to have those sights but I have little doubt about whether my sight is going to work in a HD scenario. The big problem is turning it on and letting it start up. That alone makes the high priced sights much better. But absolutely necessary? I don't think so.

I have a Sig MCX (in 300BLK) and have put a Sig Romeo 4 on it that features a 65mm ring around the dot like the Eotech on my AR-15.

It is what Sig calls a "absolute co-witness" which means it exactly lines up with the iron sights. If it's not on I get a perfect sight picture with my iron sights. It also has a motion sensor that turns it on when you pick up the weapon, a very nice feature for saving the battery and not having to fumble with it when I might need it.

I like the tactical ring around the dot for quickly getting target acquisition, on single dot sights this can be a problem for me. I don't know how it will hold up long term, but if it goes out, my irons are already there.

digiroc

Best thing about the t-2 is all the people selling their used t-1's to get the latest and greatest... to get some flip up caps and a different knob

Ultra-Dot on a 454 Casull Super Redhawk here...it holds zero just fine.

Tell that to our military. There's a reason they're not using $15 Chinese red dots.

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Get off my lawn!

Back to the OP, only one of my ARs has no backup irons on it, so it wears a T-2 in a DD mount. ACOGs are a bit out of my price range, hell, the T-2 was as well, but it's the toughest red dot/mount combo out there based on my research, and until it proves me wrong, I don't think anything I'd ever put it through would knock it out of true to cause it to stop working.

I got my T2 LNIB with a LaRue mount for $600.

Cheaper than most people are selling their used T1s.

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Use should dictate gear!

This is another good point. I'm old enough that I can't see the rear iron sight on my AR. That makes back up sights useless. Well, maybe not completely useless, but mostly so. Thus, I need a sight I can depend on not to fail. Whether at the range or in defending my life, the Trijicon is the trick.

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Freedom isn't free.

Look, On all my center fire rifles I have ggod glass. On my .22 rim fires and my 12ga. shotgun as well as my 2nd gen 29 I have open sights.
I'm on my fourth reflex for my 3rd gen 29 and if it doesn't work out Ill go back to iron sights on it! I have open sights on my carry weapon of choice.That would be a.45acp 1911 capable of hitting a man size target at 100yd.s consistently . I don't shoot competition with pistol and I only want a reliable sight for hunting. I am NOT going to spend $400+ for a reflex sight to shoot what will most likely be a 75yd. max shot on a deer.
I'm fairly new to revolvers and .44 mags as a hunting gun but even with my old decrepit eyes I can see a deer clearly at 100yd.s to shoot.
I only got talked into the whole reflex thing from an old time buddy who doesn't even really hunt any more, but swears by them. I've spent more time swearing at them! This newest one that I picked up is a Bushnell Custom that I bought from Gander Mountain with the understanding that I can return it with in 30 days for a full refund.